trouble with "belly down" armbar; please help.

[Ahoym8e]

When I try to go for an armbar out of the guard, I usually get stacked and then have to "spin out" the other direction and end up laying on my belly with the opponents arm still between my legs but his fist down by my stomach and often the elbow joint is facing 90 away (axially) from where I want it. In other words bridging out my hips doesn't really hyperextend the elbow, it torques it sideways a little. I normally need to pull the arm up to get his elbow past my hips (to use them as fulcrum), which isn't always easy when I'm laying on it.

Am I not clamping my legs tight enough? am I not pulling on the arm (up towards my jaw) enough? is there something else I am messing up?

And yes, I could and will ask my instructor (to preempt those replies ). I just want to know what you guys (&gals) think. Maybe I am doing something wrong that is very simple, and it's be fun to have some ammo for tomorrow's open mat!

Thanks!

[Bjjexpertise@be]

It's probably because you're just hanging/holding on to the arm and not pulling it in tight and against you.

[cakegirl]

When you're spinning out under him, the most important thing is keeping your legs tight on him. The leg that's over his head needs to clamp down, almost get your knee to 90 degrees, and the other leg needs to clamp his body tight. Plus you need to be squeezing your knees together so you don't lose the arm.

[shasan]

Try to touch the heel of the leg-over-his-head to your butt, that usually helps me clamp down pretty good and gives you good control of the guy's head. You may also not be spinning out enough. And all the rest of the stuff the above people said

[Ahoym8e]

Thanks for the advice!

I've found a way to trap the arm (in no gi) before I start the move that helps me out a lot, and I keep my knees really squeezed together now, which really helps. Mi gi work is betting better too (i didn't really have armbar problems in gi) (haha, well except finding myself in them too often haaha!)

I've also found the omoplata option if I screw up the armbar, so that's often a nice surprise for the opponent...

Thanks again!