kung fu has some value for mma

[kiddbjj]

hey guys thought you might like to check this site out.
it has some video clips of kung fu san shou tournaments.

http://www.kungfu.net/gallery.html

it's basically kickboxing (punches and kicks allowed, no elbows/knees) BUT it also allows all kinds of throws.

I think some of you will be somewhat surprised at the effectiveness and power of many of the kung fu takedowns in the vids, especially the leg sweeping. just goes to show that much of the old knowledge is still relevant today AS LONG AS it is trained for real against resisting opponents. I have five years of Preying Mantis and I can attest that if you get dropped on your ass or back by some of the sweeps it f**king hurts and makes you very mindful of where you shift your balance when sparring someone good.

hope you like what you see and for the record i also train BJJ and Muay Thai so I'm not entirely biased toward TMA's. Tell us what you think

[Tom Yum]

San shou is not a traditional martial art. From what I understand, its less than 20 years in the making. The Chinese military took western boxing + muay thai, but added in a couple of fundamental kung fu kicks and some nice takedowns from shuai jiao.

You don't see moves called "hungry tiger snatches the lamb" with guys in deep stances, doing long fist punches, plum blossom blocks or even chain punching for that matter.

[EmptyneSs]

i was looking at that link and i was lookin at some pics of sanshou fighters in action, and i noticed that their takedowns all looked like judo throws. it looked like kickboxing and judo combined. looks awesome.

[kiddbjj]

yeah your right about the throws tom yum. they come from chinese wrestling (shuai jiao) which has a very long and rich tradition. it is so wide spread in chinese martial culture that nearly all of the kung fu styles have wrestling/takedown techniques borrowed from chinese wrestling. as for the kicking and punching being from boxing that is probably the case but basically i think its just a case of people trying and failing with the other striking methods and naturally evolving into strikes that resemble your standard boxing, muay thai, savate type strikes. jab, cross, hook, uppercut, backfist... it aint rocket science. the commendable thing is that the guys and schools that do compete have the guts to pressure test their style and therefore allow it to evolve rather than many kung fu schools that are basically stagnant.

[kiddbjj]

emptyness, although the throws look like judo, you`ll notice that they don't necessarily rely on needing to grip the opponents clothing. many of the chinese wrestling throws use natural body handles (eg back of the knees, underhooking the arm). aside from that remember that judo is relatively young and stems from Japanese Ju Jitsu, which in turn stems from wrestling derived from China, India and Mongolia. Most parts of the world have a wrestling history in some shape or form eg Greece, Rome as well as Asia and Middle East. Sumo is another off shoot of the wrestling that entered Japan.

[EmptyneSs]

Originally Posted by kiddbjj

emptyness, although the throws look like judo, you`ll notice that they don't necessarily rely on needing to grip the opponents clothing. many of the chinese wrestling throws use natural body handles (eg back of the knees, underhooking the arm). aside from that remember that judo is relatively young and stems from Japanese Ju Jitsu, which in turn stems from wrestling derived from China, India and Mongolia. Most parts of the world have a wrestling history in some shape or form eg Greece, Rome as well as Asia and Middle East. Sumo is another off shoot of the wrestling that entered Japan.

yeah i know the throws dont rely on gripping the gi, but not all judo throws rely on grips. also most arts that contain throws and takedowns usually have many of the same techniques, or variations of eachother. i only mentioned they looked like judo since judo is the most familiar to me in terms of an art that contains takedowns and throws.

[Tom Yum]

Originally Posted by kiddbjj

emptyness, although the throws look like judo, you`ll notice that they don't necessarily rely on needing to grip the opponents clothing. many of the chinese wrestling throws use natural body handles (eg back of the knees, underhooking the arm). aside from that remember that judo is relatively young and stems from Japanese Ju Jitsu, which in turn stems from wrestling derived from China, India and Mongolia. Most parts of the world have a wrestling history in some shape or form eg Greece, Rome as well as Asia and Middle East. Sumo is another off shoot of the wrestling that entered Japan.

Great point - Well developed wrestling existed along time ago in China, India and Mongolia, before Japan and Europe.

[Ikken Hisatsu]

err, afaik wrestling in europe has been around as long/longer than it has been in china. It was a big thing in ancient greece- they even had MMA style fighting in the form of pankration

[Tom Yum]

Hmmm... I'm sure that its been around for a while. Just for kicks, I'd like to see the earliest records of Greek pankration to Mongolian or Chinese wrestling. Any historians here?