went to a bjj tournament

[EmptyneSs]

i went to a gracie bjj tournament today to support my buddy who was competing today.i was actually pretty dissapointed. the competitors really werent great at all. just about every competitor had nonexistent stand up skills. competitors would grab on to eachother, and just go nowere until one of them fell on the other, then they would start rolling around. the only competitor that was awesome was a judoka who would just toss his opponents around like it was nothing since none of em had any stand up/takedown skills whatsoever. even the higher belts were dissapointing. also i saw some purple belt get worked by a whitebelt, and it was pretty sad.

[cakegirl]

Where was the tournament and who was running it?

[EmptyneSs]

it was at san francisco state university, and i think ralph gracie was running it.

[doubleouch]

Bjj has lackluster takedown techniques at best. If you aren't very knowledgeable about ground fighting it can look quite boring and like not much at all. I'm sure to some more versed in what happens on the ground there was some good stuff going on.

[EmptyneSs]

i do alotta groundfighting myself bro, there just wasnt too much crackin at this tournament. mabye it was a bad day or something, but most of the competitors werent doing well. the only person who was impressive was the judoka who was tossing around his helpless opponents lol.

also, there was a blackbelt superfight between david camarillo and some other blackbelt. camarillo savagely arm barred the other blackbelt in like few seconds and it was over.david camarillos skill in bjj is uncanny, ive never seen anyone that good. the mma fighters in our gym are all afriad to go full on with him cause he is that good.

[finlayson]

I , too, was at that tournament (and competing, tho' I lost :-( First, I don't know how you could seen "a purple belt getting worked by a white belt", because all of the divisions were separated by belt color (and weight, and age, and gender). At no time were people with different belt colors fighting.

Second, you shouldn't go watch a BJJ tournament if you expect to see lots of good takedowns. BJJ focuses on grappling skills (at least in part because most real-world fights quickly end up on the ground), with takedown skills being of lesser importance (at most schools, anyway). To the uninitiated BJJ grappling might just look like "rolling around on the ground", but, believe me, there is a *lot* of subtlety involved, and an amazing level of skill required, especially at the higher belt levels.

Ross.

[EmptyneSs]

Originally Posted by finlayson

Second, you shouldn't go watch a BJJ tournament if you expect to see lots of good takedowns. BJJ focuses on grappling skills (at least in part because most real-world fights quickly end up on the ground), with takedown skills being of lesser importance (at most schools, anyway). To the uninitiated BJJ grappling might just look like "rolling around on the ground", but, believe me, there is a *lot* of subtlety involved, and an amazing level of skill required, especially at the higher belt levels.

no shit that bjj focuses and grappling skills, thats why its so funny that in competition the have to start standing up and most of dont have any standup. thats why it was awesome when one of the whitebelts was a judoka and was just having his way with his opponents. when his opponents would get slammed it would throw them off their game so bad, and he would just pin them and drain their energy while conserving his, while working the choke or submission. i dont understand the point of making them standing up in competitions, but not teaching them any standup skills. most of the competitors would latch onto eachother with their arms stiff out, and eventually one of em would fall on the other. there were a few people who would jump to guard,but most of the ones i saw were very sloppy, and some people got slammed. ii saw one guy actually go for a single leg, get the leg, and not know how to dump his opponent. his oppenent ended up getting his leg free and then they just latched onto eachother agian. it was like, OMG. plus, i train in bjj/submission myself, i know theres lots of subltety and skill involved,sadly i didnt really witness alot of it at the tournament. its not that i sat there and didnt have a clue as to what i was watching.

also alot of fights wouldnt end up on the ground if someone had some decent standup skills and the balance that comes with it, just like at the tournament. i didnt see the judoka getting taken down once,or even coming close to getting taken down by any of his opponents. he threw all his opponents and got on top of em. the takedown range is a range of its own. many things can happen there.

the black belt super fight was cool though, that one blackbelt got armbared outta nowere.

also i saw a white belt grappling a purple belt during the 30 min break, i guess it was unoficial or for fun, but the white belt totally worked the purple belt.he didnt submit him, but he pretty much controlled and wore out the purple belt the whole match. i was like, did that really just happen ?

[J Rockwell]

That sucks that the level of takedowns at that tournament was not very good. Don't let that fool you into thinking all tournaments are like that one, however. Most of the tournaments I've been to, the takedowns have been pretty damn good, a lot of great wrestlers and guys with judo experience. Especially the no-gi tournaments, you see a lot more skilled people working takedowns. The gi slows things down a bit, and with so many people just waiting to jump to guard, it makes the judo guys a bit more cautious.

Keep going to tournaments, I'm sure you'll see some better examples of BJJ guys who are also skilled at takedowns. Did they learn those takedown skills in BJJ class? Probably not, cross-training is essential solely within the grappling arts to have a complete game.

Better yet, you should train the hell out of your takedowns, and then start entering tournaments yourself. Then you can clean up and illustrate to your opponents that they are neglecting that part of their game.

Jeff

[kungpo]

He's right about the takedowns at this tournie. I was there as well (didn't compete, injured). I went to the one in May in SF and the overall tournie was better in all respects (takedowns, grappling). Just my opinion.

[kesslari]

I attended. My son competed, and had a great experience. I did not (still recovering from shoulder surgery in August).
I saw some great fights. Not as many spectacular takedowns as in May, agreed. It's interesting how the rules affect the game. In BJJ, since you can't slam your opponent, it's advantageous to jump into guard and a lot of people do that. In Judo, the ref will stand you up if there's no clear submission or pin happening, so it's advantageous to drop and give your opponent your back. The rules have a profound effect on the fight.
Dave Camarillo's black belt match was outstanding. There were a couple of outstanding brown belt match as well. Plus the guys from my dojo won their divisions, so that makes it a good match, right?
Kesslari

[EmptyneSs]

what schools are u guys from?

i think david camarillo might just be one of the best bjj blackbelts ever. he is also a blackbelt in judo. his match was awesome. that super fight only lasted like a minute or two.

[kesslari]

Tiger Martial Arts in Scott's Valley. We're part of Charles' organization - Chris Smith (who heads the school) is one of Charles' black belts.
I agree, I was really impressed with Dave C.
Also Luke, one of Ralph's brown belts - that guy is a machine.
JK

[JaredExtreme]

Regarding poor takedowns in BJJ:

The takedown quality really varies from school to school. The first place I trained had much more of a focus on take-downs, throws, and no-gi, but very little emphasis on reversals and sweeps like my current school.

Personally I think everyone should know the basic takedowns like the double/single leg, leg trips, and the common judo throws. But if someone is lacking in takedown skills they can compensate by having a tricky butterfly guard and good reversals. This way, if you don get taken down and land in a poor position, you can rely on the butterfly guard or other reversals to reverse position.