RMAX and multiple attackers on the ground

[James Lee]

I just saw some cool pix in the new RMAX fotogallery of Scott Sonnon's Softwork seminar. There are some kick ass fotos of him fighting 3 guys off at once! But I gotta know how the HELL is he doing this?

[doubleouch]

Well, I can only assume that either he is the best grappler in the history of the world, he is working with cooperative partners, or the guys he is working with are the worst grapplers in the world. That's really the only way one guy can grapple 3 guys at once and survive.

[James Lee]

Why would you assume that? Im sure that people assumed the same about Royce Gracie when they said that he would take on anyone within the rules of the UFC. Maybe theres something too RMAX that is new just like Bjj was in the 90s.

[holyman]

u should stop dreaming about how kungfu/bjj/karate guys can take on 3 guys at once. I think this is rubbish.

Stop watching jackie chan movies and fist of fury

Why would you assume that? Im sure that people assumed the same about Royce Gracie when they said that he would take on anyone within the rules of the UFC. Maybe theres something too RMAX that is new just like Bjj was in the 90s.

[CKD]

The grappling the three attackers is not what it seems. The goal of the excercise is too get back up on your feet and try to get away not to beat your opponents per se. He is simply trying to escape not trying to beat up three attackers at once while on the ground. It is nearly impossible for you to beat three attackers while on the ground.

[James Lee]

holyman, how do you know? It sounds like CKD's gotta good idea of what the drill is for. A different instructor from a different style told me this

part of training like this is to stop seeing numbers and adding obstacles, for example a strike comes toward your face …do you really need to know much more than that?
The two most important parts of defense at that moment are the speed and the angle.
Everything else deters your response slows you down and can even create a doubt in your mind that it can be defended. Your mind starts to see a large opponent very strong very well trained and then starts to think about those issues and compares to itself (you) and doubt can enter….better to just deal with the speed and angle.

Same is true for a grab or whatever does it matter if one or two people grab? Are they not still grabs and is the defense not going to be the same (basically) for each?

In the case of this style there are some additional concepts however a fighter that is trained to fight within their sphere will deal with the sphere and nothing else.

My students spar like this a lot...at first it is hard to understand mentally but when you begin you will start to feel the fight and that opens a lot of doors

by the way a clue...look at the photos look at his eyes what are they looking at? so after you have looked at his eyes, look at the others are they fixed on something? To me there is a certain distance between the skill levels based on this before looking much futher.

[doubleouch]

It is impossible to beat 3 attackers on the ground. Royce Gracie will tell you he can't do it. Randy Coutoure will tell you he can't do it. If 3 guys are intent on beating you down and you are on your back on the ground it's probably a lost cause. Will you be able to get up and run? Maybie, but this would be luck as much as any skill. If you had any experience working with grappling you would know that for sure.

[James Lee]

i guess you will give up and die then?

[NYCMonkey]

Go nuts, crush balls, tear this, scratch that, bite whatever is in front of your face, turn into a freakin' rabid pit bull. There's always something you can do. I'm not saying' it's an easy feat, FAR from it, but man, getting off the ground with 3 guys without causing damage to them? I ain't a earthworm. No amount of wiggling here and there will let you out. However, I do not know what's going on in ese pics really, so I'm not judging them, but just judging by how another person commented saying he's trying to get off the ground without hurting the other person. Hurting them will allow you to get up. Think about it, you're with 2 other friends, pissed off, wanna kick this dude's ass for whatever reason, you're not gonna jump in with both your buddies (if it's both that are even on the ground as well). You'll be circling trying to boot his head.

[CKD]

I do not think everyone understands the drill here. Scott Sonnon also does not claim to be able to beat three attackers from the ground. He does say that he knows drills to help you get better at standing up and getting away from those attackers. He makes no claims to be able to destroy three attackers from his back.

[James Lee]

Ckd I think thats the problem. Everyone always places combat arts in the same bucket as combat sports. In order for anything to "work" they think that it must be a competition. And as soon as someone explains that its about escape then they say time is better spent just competing. Mixed martial arts are important part of training, Scott says he loves them and sees combat sports as important "check and balaance." He also says that they are not the "end all" of training. What do these poeple think comes after sport?

[doubleouch]

Ckd I think thats the problem. Everyone always places combat arts in the same bucket as combat sports. In order for anything to "work" they think that it must be a competition. And as soon as someone explains that its about escape then they say time is better spent just competing. Mixed martial arts are important part of training, Scott says he loves them and sees combat sports as important "check and balaance." He also says that they are not the "end all" of training. What do these poeple think comes after sport?

It's fine James. A good drill comes as close to mimicing reality as possible. If the drill is getting up with 3 people attacking you and the 3 people are giving you minimal resistance then the drill will probably not be very helpful. You can certainly start with working minimal resistance, but you must move on to more and more resistance until you are basically going all out. This is the only way to do it. If that's what he's doing then fine. It doesn't matter if you are training mma or sport or self defense. The training method is the same. The specific techniques you train and use (tactics) will train depending on the venue, but the alive nature of the drills cannot. It's the training against a fully resisting partner, using drills that closely match the performance event that you are training for that matters.

[NYCMonkey]

I'm not a 'MMA is everything in the street' kinda guy, quite the opposite actually, but I didn't know this was just a drill. Someone said he was getting up without putting the hurt on 3 guys all on top or holding him on the ground. My point was just that in ORDER to escape such an ordeal (on the ground with multiples) you need to resort to protective offense, and I never see a street assault as competition, but an endangerment to your survival.

[CKD]

The drill has a natural progression.For a beginner you start a bit slower and softer just to get a feel for what it like and to keep yourself aware. Then the more advanced you are you build up the contact speed until its full power. But in those clips that were posted it looks like Sonnon was giving instruction and showing the importance of awareness.

[James Lee]

It's fine James. A good drill comes as close to mimicing reality as possible. If the drill is getting up with 3 people attacking you and the 3 people are giving you minimal resistance then the drill will probably not be very helpful. You can certainly start with working minimal resistance, but you must move on to more and more resistance until you are basically going all out. This is the only way to do it. If that's what he's doing then fine. It doesn't matter if you are training mma or sport or self defense. The training method is the same. The specific techniques you train and use (tactics) will train depending on the venue, but the alive nature of the drills cannot. It's the training against a fully resisting partner, using drills that closely match the performance event that you are training for that matters.

Yes, that's why Scott says RMAX works from Softwork to Hardwork.