Lets Make It Official

[HtTKar]

Lets make this official. At least as far as this forum goes!

I've read "The Facts" everywhere, and never are they the same. Some say 90% of all fights end on the ground, 60% of all fights end on the ground, A good striker finishes 90% of his fights on his feet, "The FBI says", "The CIA says".... Never are these facts, they are just opinions.

I searched for hours looking for solid facts on how many fights actually end on the ground. My reason for doing this is that seldom have I personally seen a fight ever END on the ground, though everyone seems to say that this is what almost always happens.

For a fight to END on the ground, thats where it must end.
This is not the same as if someone gets KO'd and falls to the ground.
It is not the same thing as if someone slips and stands back up.
It is not the same if someone holds someone up while hitting them.
It is also not the same as if two people go to the ground but both stand back up and finish the fight standing.

The fight must END on the ground.

The results of this thread may be the closest to actual solid facts that I can get.

Please only count fights that you have been in personally.
Fights that occured since you were at least 17yrs old.
Please no trolls, lying, or stretching of the truth..

If you only want to answer the poll but do not wish to say anything fine, but please dont lie about your experience. I want this to be as close as I can get to some facts.

[Tom Yum]

Does mud wrestling count as a fight? How 'bout foxy boxin??

[HtTKar]

Sure, you ever scuffle with those mud wrestlers. Their tough.
I didnt expect that they would be throwing down. I thought it was going to be all fun and games. Silly me. They dont make it easy, and their very competitive. Oh well, I'd do it again....and again...and

But I am very interested in the results of this poll. Look around for solid facts anywhere about this, and I doubt you'll be able to find any that are not contradicted by someone elses solid facts.

At least this way, we know who we're talking to. We will be able to say "members of this forum generally end only X% of their fights on the ground, so my MA kicks ass, and yououours sucks"

[Tom Yum]

Originally Posted by HtTKar

Sure, you ever scuffle with those mud wrestlers. Their tough.
I didnt expect that they would be throwing down. I thought it was going to be all fun and games. Silly me. They dont make it easy, and their very competitive. Oh well, I'd do it again....and again...and

Now this I got to see.....and referee!

[Garland]

Hmmm...interesting question. Most of the scraps I've gotten myself into have had parts of them prone...but I think it's better to either break it if you've got it and run, or try and get up quick and soccer kick if possible. Truthfully, who wants to play "uncle" with an assailant whilst rolling on one's back??? Sounds pretty gay to me. Especially if their pals turn up to give their pal back-up...then everyone gets fucked...

[IPON]

Well I would have to say that I have never been on the ground unless by choice. Fights can end on the ground, I think the real question is who is in control.

Skilled vs unskilled = ground fine

Unskilled vs unskilled = possible ground here is the question mark

I agree that the numbers have been inflated but I don't think you will ever find any good data to support either stance.

The other question is committment on the ground. In jujutsu, judo, HKD we take poeple to the ground but we don't make committments to staying on the ground the opponent is on the ground.

[gregimotis]

I voted by the rules of the poll, but I'd like to point out that one of my fights would have ended on the ground if I'd known any of the grappling I do now (the choke was right there but I didn''t know how to apply it); Also I've applied rear naked choke from behind twice to break up fights - these fights didn't go to the ground but I learned that choke in B.J.J.

So, I think these three instances should partially count for fights ending on the ground.

[DragonAE86]

(In MY experience)

Not a single fight I've been in (including my time as Head Doormen for approx 4yrs) did it ever go on the ground.

The only times I've seen a fight go to the ground were drunks outside pubs/nightclubs and school (pre 17rs old). Even the best fighter in the our little shire called Bedford (who fought in 'Bare Knuckle' matches), I witnessed 2 of he's fights, both were finished in about about 10 secs (couple of punches thrown and then a judo throw on concrete).

Many will verify the above (inc British pro boxer Matt Skelton).

[Tom Yum]

seems like bouncers in the UK and other parts of the north atlantic are given alot of leeway to do their job.

[DragonAE86]

Originally Posted by Tom Yum

seems like bouncers in the UK and other parts of the north atlantic are given alot of leeway to do their job.

I suppose we do/did what was required and were lucky enough not to have the 'Law Suits' our American cousins have to put up with.

The funny thing I find is the 'General' consensus of what does and doesn't work on the street. I remember one of the guys I worked with, he bit the tip of a guys nose off in a scrap, he did no MA and is one guy you would be happy to have your back in any scrap (he was a Rugby player).

Far as I'm concerned, fighting is fighting, use whatever works. Bite, scratch, pull hair

[47MartialMan]

Originally Posted by DragonAE86

(In MY experience)

Not a single fight I've been in (including my time as Head Doormen for approx 4yrs) did it ever go on the ground.

The only times I've seen a fight go to the ground were drunks outside pubs/nightclubs and school (pre 17rs old). Even the best fighter in the our little shire called Bedford (who fought in 'Bare Knuckle' matches), I witnessed 2 of he's fights, both were finished in about about 10 secs (couple of punches thrown and then a judo throw on concrete).

Many will verify the above (inc British pro boxer Matt Skelton).

I habe to agree. The fight usually stops, someway, before going to the ground. The ground "debate" is usually JJ people trying to back up the ultimate need for their art. Which BTW, it resurge only due to UFC-which has rules and regulations

[HtTKar]

The ground "debate" is usually JJ people trying to back up the ultimate need for their art.

Where are all these people now?
I guess they already voted. They must be the 4 people that voted 100%.

The only fights I have seen end on the ground.
2 were in bars.
1.) Once one huge italian dude reached across the bar and pulled the bartender over the bar threw him on the ground and started pummelling him while choking him. Fight was broken up.
2nd) a Navy guy grabbed a man by his kneck and pulled him backwards off his barstool, threw him on the ground and started hitting him while choking him. Fight was broken up.

The third fight I've seen end on the ground was a drunk ran up to a guy and senselessly just started hitting the poor guy. Both went to the ground flailing punches. Then 25-30 of the drunks friends showed up and stomped the other guy into the ground before helping their friend up.

In these fights, the loser was still OK, and able to get home fine.

The rest of the fights are standing up. Last about 10 seconds, and the loser has a broken eye, nose, jaw, bleeding all over, and half unconscious rolling in their blood long after the fight was over. I know a couple people that have permenent vision problems from fighting and have to wear glasses now.

Seems to me the only time the fights went to the ground is when they knew it was going to be broken up. It's like the typical bar as$ole that sucker punches and backs off just long enough for the fight to get broken up. These guys dont take it outside they know what would happen. In these cases, all the groundwork preparation in the world would not prepare you for the 5 seconds you have before the fights broken up.

[gregimotis]

I still think the rules of the poll are weighted against the grappler postion. Consider that a good grappler could two-leg takedown or hip throw or otherwise put an opponent down hard on the ground - then forcefully knee-to-stomach and stand right back up without ever really going to the ground himself.

In that case, the fight would likely be over (just being thrown on thier back on a hard surface is going to slow most people down), and all the skills employed are grappling skills.

My point is that many of the skills learned in grappling don't really require commitment to the floor unless your opponent is trained as well - in which case the variables become pointlessly large anyway.

[DragonAE86]

There are no 'certanties' in fighting, especially on the street, the guy I mentioned throwing he's oppenent to the floor is a 5th degree Judo instructor, but has won 90% of he's fights with punches (I asked him many yrs ago when I trained with him).

I won't post he's name cus there is no point (he's not law abiding to say the least).

I studied Judo with him for 5 yrs and I've never needed to resort to any of my 'grappling' training in a streetfight to this day.

There was a top Judo guy called 'Georges Medhi' that taught ppl like Mario Sperry, Rickson Gracie etc He too would say "no point getting your clothes dirty if can finish the fight on your feet".

Originally Posted by gregimotis

I still think the rules of the poll are weighted against the grappler postion. Consider that a good grappler could two-leg takedown or hip throw or otherwise put an opponent down hard on the ground - then forcefully knee-to-stomach and stand right back up without ever really going to the ground himself.

In that case, the fight would likely be over (just being thrown on thier back on a hard surface is going to slow most people down), and all the skills employed are grappling skills.

My point is that many of the skills learned in grappling don't really require commitment to the floor unless your opponent is trained as well - in which case the variables become pointlessly large anyway.

[47MartialMan]

Originally Posted by HtTKar

Where are all these people now?
I guess they already voted. They must be the 4 people that voted 100%.

The only fights I have seen end on the ground.
2 were in bars.
1.) Once one huge italian dude reached across the bar and pulled the bartender over the bar threw him on the ground and started pummelling him while choking him. Fight was broken up.
2nd) a Navy guy grabbed a man by his kneck and pulled him backwards off his barstool, threw him on the ground and started hitting him while choking him. Fight was broken up.

The third fight I've seen end on the ground was a drunk ran up to a guy and senselessly just started hitting the poor guy. Both went to the ground flailing punches. Then 25-30 of the drunks friends showed up and stomped the other guy into the ground before helping their friend up.

In these fights, the loser was still OK, and able to get home fine.

The rest of the fights are standing up. Last about 10 seconds, and the loser has a broken eye, nose, jaw, bleeding all over, and half unconscious rolling in their blood long after the fight was over. I know a couple people that have permenent vision problems from fighting and have to wear glasses now.

Seems to me the only time the fights went to the ground is when they knew it was going to be broken up. It's like the typical bar as$ole that sucker punches and backs off just long enough for the fight to get broken up. These guys dont take it outside they know what would happen. In these cases, all the groundwork preparation in the world would not prepare you for the 5 seconds you have before the fights broken up.

Yes, I agree. but when know one breaks it up, the loser is the one that CANT HANDLE A STRIKE. Because I dont care who you are, if someone struck you so hard, all the ground in the world ismt going to help you. (And I dont mean a siisy-fide striker)