Evading or breaking the headlock

[medic06]

wow, do some of you actually practice going for the trachea? I hope you keep a cricothyroidomy kit close by . . . .

[Tant01]

You might be surprised to know I did actually learn the fundamentals of this procedure but it's spelled Cricothyroid(ot)omy....
Good one!

[medic06]

I've come close to doing the procedure, but I haven't had to spell it in a while, my bad.

[IPON]

Tant01 I don't mind the sarcasm, but I have no idea if you are asking questions or making a statements.

So I will answer as well as a "pro" can:

The difference in the technique is seen in the intent, goal or objective for utilizing the technique. Both a headlock and choke can be used for submission but the objective is different. Chokes are used to restrict blood or oxygen. Headlock are used for control/position and to generate pain. I also think it goes with saying that both can be very deadly at the highest level of use.

Originally Posted by Tant01

Squeezing the mellon is a "head lock" but isolating the neck to attack the trachea or corotid is not a head lock? How about you lean back with that choke hold and apply pressure to the neck vertibra? Is it a headlock then?

You actually answer your own question here, but I do not mind explaining your answer. If you apply the headlock as first stated then slide to the neck (which is a very convienient transistion)you essentially transition from a headlock to a choke. You may at that point apply some pressure to the head, but the emphasis is on the neck.

Simplistic analogy: if you lay on a bench and lift weights, generally speaking, this will fall into the catagory of a chest work out, No. Now the while doing these exercies the pectoralis muscles are the main focus, but they are not the only muscle fibers that will recieve stimulation (e.g triceps, front deltoids, forearms etc may also be stimulated). However, the focus of the exercise is chest development. Now I am over simplifying this just to make a point so let not get side tracked on a weight lifting debate.

Originally Posted by Tant01

Guess it's time I went back to school, eh?

Not to worry, I am starting classes and accept students at all levels and for no fee. Hey you get what you pay for and I am honest about it.



[QUOTE=Tant01]edit to define headlock(no pun intended); Noun.

a wrestling hold in which the opponent's head is locked between the crook of your elbow and the side of your body... [QUOTE=Tant01]

I am not sure I understand the point you are attemping to make (if any). Yes the head lock is primarily a wrestling technique, but used in other styles as well. Not the best techniques to use for SD and even in sports to easy to escape and like Jeremy stated perfect for set-ups. Jubaji may give a good perspective as well I know I let people try to get headlocks then quick reverse and back points.

Originally Posted by Tant01

Found another crapolla site (a goshin jutsu combat academy page) offering advise on escaping a headlock

"Even the roughly applied version of this hold can be dangerous and will give you problems escaping. The side headlock when clamped on can constrict the carotid arteries running up the side of the neck and slow blood flow down to the brain, making a sleeper hold.....The front headlock can become a powerful choke to the windpipe or a severe neck crank if twisted".

Hmmm.....

The site can’t be too bad if you are using a quote. I don’t think this quote is stating anything different than I have already stated. Let’s look shall we..Lesson 1:

Originally Posted by Tant01

The side headlock when clamped on can constrict the carotid arteries running up the side of the neck and slow blood flow down to the brain, making a sleeper hold"

The side headlock will restrict the blood flow of the carotid…….Again a proper head-lock does not involve applying any direct pressure to the neck. The pressure is applied to the skull (including eyes nose teeth etc). The headlock can be used to apply pressure to the neck and spine to cause pain, injury or death.

Originally Posted by Tant01

The front headlock can become a powerful choke to the windpipe or a severe neck crank if twisted".

The statement is not totally incorrect. Again, a headlock is not a choke, but can be easily transitioned to a choke. As stated “it can become a powerful choke to the windpipe” In that context the statement is correct.

Originally Posted by Tant01

Before it was the "guillotine" it was also called Mae Hadaka Jime

Don't worry friend the technique is still referred to as Hadaka Jime

[Tant01]

Originally Posted by IPON

Tant01 I don't mind the sarcasm, but I have no idea if you are asking questions or making a statements.....
....The site can’t be too bad if you are using a quote. I don’t think this quote is stating anything different than I have already stated. Let’s look shall we......
...

Just posting some results of my amature research, no offense intended. I think a choke is also a headlock. Or can be. I respect others opinions and input and your posts seem professional enough!! I've never been good with terminology, I understand the separation of your objectives for the techniques and that strength is applied to inflict pain or control your opponent. A headlock is okay in my book if you're intent is to use his cranium for a battering ram or good throw but I'd rather transition into a position that allows for a more efficient end. Hissatsu...
I was not impressed with the defences suggested on that site I quoted just looking for a definition of headlock. Eyegouges, testicle destructions, trachea crushing, biting, hair pulling and the like claiming to be "pure" Ju-Jutsu...

[Shoot]

Ahh, the headlock. One of the simplest and most instinctive rasslin holds ever. The headlock is written off by many a JuJitsuist as being primitive, ineffective, easy to break, if not dangerous to those beastly people who tend to use them, and, well, dumb. My opinion? The headlock is very underrated, especially when employed by a strong and large person. When employed by someone large and in charge, this hold is tough to break when used correctly--that is to say, when the person is held down low to the side off balance with a chin being dug into the temple. There are three main dangers with being in the headlock: getting your neck broken from the jerking that the headlocker will likely emply, being smothered/choked if the headlock is really a necklock, and being punched silly. The English boxers called this "punching in chancery" when wrestling was allowed in boxing. This tells you that you should protect your face first as it only takes a few quick shots the head to get loopy, especially when your head is swelling with blood and pressure. Personally I've found that this hold is easier to break on the ground if you are side by side or on top of your locker (being under somebody in the side headlock is not easy to break) wherein you can employ the arm-over-pry method you'll see in any decent BJJ text and go into a superior ground position, if not right into an arm bar. If you remain standing for a dozen reasons you can try to pull your head out--just don't pull your head off. You can try to pry his hands and pull the arm off you. You can stomp and you can go for a shot at the balls and maybe eyes or the throat. Just don't forget that what you dish out may come back to you in spades, since you're the one in the lock. My experience has been that people tend to not let go of their lock on a person at almost any cost--people will take hard shots and then counter what you did--only harder. I knew a guy who got his nipple almost bitten off from holding a guy in a headlock in a fight. He also took a pretty good nut shot. He did not let go of his lock on his opponent. The headlockee went to the ER after the fight. The headlocker went home. Fights have a tit for tat quality to them. I think prying and getting out probably has more success than striking since your leverage is poor for striking. However, striking may be used as a distraction to set up a better chance at prying loose. Often, if the person lets go with one hand to punch you, you can pry out easily. You may even reach around (if you can) and tie up their far arm to keep it from striking you or take away its power. To get to the ground you can trip the person backwards or you can try to lock him up and swing him down. Nothing really secret here. My words of wisdom are that you should begin your escape before the lock is really set in. Start escaping before you lose your base and are pulled over all sprawled and stretched out. The good news is that when you do escape you'll be in a good position.

[koto_ryu]

Originally Posted by medic06

wow, do some of you actually practice going for the trachea? I hope you keep a cricothyroidomy kit close by . . . .

All you need is a pen, knife, and some tape and you're good

[Hardball]

IPON.........................Kia'

Bowing Out

[Tant01]

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

.... I wondered about this, and asked two of my students, one of whom is a well-respected vascular surgeon, and the other, one of my region's best facial reconstructive surgeons.

They researched it and told me that chokes work the same way that restricting blood flow makes your hand, arm, or foot go to sleep.

It pools the blood in the brain by restricting its flow out and back to the heart. This causes a backup of sorts, and the pressure, combined with the overload of carbon-dioxide rich blood keeping oxygenated blood from getting in makes you pass out.

I thought it was cool to know. Just thought I'd pass it on.

Good stuff Mr. B.

[medic06]

Originally Posted by koto_ryu

All you need is a pen, knife, and some tape and you're good

OH, and don't forget the broad spectrum antibiotics. . .

[Jeremy Lobdell]

Originally Posted by medic06

OH, and don't forget the broad spectrum antibiotics. . .

And the straw!

[koto_ryu]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Lobdell

And the straw!

That's what the pens for, though You break it open, take out the guts, and use it as the tube. Doesn't bend as much as the straw and is a bit tougher.

[Jeremy Lobdell]

Originally Posted by koto_ryu

That's what the pens for, though You break it open, take out the guts, and use it as the tube. Doesn't bend as much as the straw and is a bit tougher.

I guess that works, as far as Hollywood goes. In reality, most pens are to constrictive at the end to allow enough air to flow through. If a normal straw is tough enough to pass liquid through, and you can breath through it without collapsing it, it shouldn't be a real problem.

[Tant01]

JL>>quote"If a normal straw is tough enough to pass liquid through, and you can breath through it without collapsing it, it shouldn't be a real problem".

Sorry but the trachea is a tough organ that will pinch off a straw. Hurry now you've only got a minute or five before permanent brain damage starts... cut a soda can and roll the aluminum into a tube! Damn the duct tape and start those antibiotics!

[Jeremy Lobdell]

????????????????????????????????