What works and what doesn't

[Ground Pounder]

New years night... There is a fight between a 5th degree White Tiger Kenpo artist and a regular wrestler getting ready to happen. It's in the deep woods out in the middle of no-where with a bond fire close by and the cars form a semi circle with the lights on to form a ring for the fight boiling... Than its on... The Martial artist who has been taking the art of Kenpo for 15 years give or take goes to throw a kick at the wrestlers head and is suprised with a single leg take down and finds all of his years of MA experience vanishing before his eyes because he is on the ground where he knows not what to do. He goes to get on his hands and knees but the wrestler starts beating the back of his head with his fists like a gorilla would its prey. And before the kenpo artist knows it the fight is over...

This is a true story of what I saw happen at a New Years college party and it opened my mind as to what reality is. If you are looking for a system in martial arts for the reason of learning how to defend youself and you are taking Tae-Kwon-Do "no offense TKD artist" you need a reality check. If you are taking one style of any kind you are short changing yourself. A well rounded martial artist knows he needs to take what he can from various systems and take each technique for what it's worth. If I know two twins are going to be fighting one another, and they had equal rest prepared mentally physically the same. And are exactly the same as far as readiness other than the fact that one twin knows how to box and the other knows how to box and grapple I will put my $ on the one that boxes and wrestles. The one twin is going to grapple the other to the ground even know he knows how to box simpley because he knows his brother doesn't.

In short if you are taking a style that teaches you all these fancy katas and combonations that teaches you do this and to that in this situation you are screwed. "No Offense to anyone". This allys to 99% of MA studios today. I have taken so many different systems it's not even funny. I have been taking MA for years now and I will tell you from experience, the most dangerous people I know, know boxing grappling and how to kick with realistic kicks and knees and elbows.

So in closing if you are taking a stand up system for the reason of learning how to defend yourself and you are not getting in the ring with it and learning how to apply your system and it's techniques you have something comming when that boxer/wrestler who only knows 5 punches and 3 take downs with 3 finish holds gets a hold of you. And knows them well because he practices them with real sparring not love taps. You are going to find yourself getting you a$$ handed to you big time.

Stay away from Hollywood Jet Lee/Van Dam/Steven Saegal movies because they are about as cloe to reality as a slug is tasty. Don't be the one to find out that a boxer can kick your a$$ all over the place because I never did learn to apply my techniques in a real world situation...

Ground and Pound 'Em!

[DragonAE86]

Originally Posted by Ground Pounder

Stay away from Hollywood Jet Lee/Van Dam/Steven Saegal movies because they are about as cloe to reality as a slug is tasty. Don't be the one to find out that a boxer can kick your a$$ all over the place because I never did learn to apply my techniques in a real world situation...
Ground and Pound 'Em!

But I see Jet Li kick Randy Coture's ass .......




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Oh poo! That was in a movie

[HtTKar]

True,
Anybody can beat anybody on any given day. Martial arts may give you an upperhand, but it's not an absolute. It doesnt matter how many years of training you have, or how many styles you've studied, eventually you will get the crap kicked out of you. It's a humbling experience. It's how you handle the whooping that makes all the difference.

You never know if on a different day, the Kenpo artist may have won. You can study one style or hundreds...it doesnt make a difference as long as you evaluate your skills through hard contact and make the changes that you need to win.

[Tant01]

Originally Posted by Ground Pounder

New years night... There is a fight between a 5th degree White Tiger Kenpo artist and a regular wrestler getting ready to happen. ...
...The Martial artist who has been taking the art of Kenpo for 15 years give or take goes to throw a kick at the wrestlers head and is suprised with a single leg take down and finds all of his years of MA experience vanishing before his eyes because he is on the ground where he knows not what to do. He goes to get on his hands and knees but the wrestler starts beating the back of his head with his fists like a gorilla would its prey. And before the kenpo artist knows it the fight is over...

This is a true story of what I saw happen at a New Years college party and it opened my mind as to what reality is. .....

....
Ground and Pound 'Em!

One mistake Pounder. If you assume that any "regular" old wrestler can takedown the advanced blackbelt you're in for a wake up call of your own...

It's NOT THE STYLE it's the MAN using it. Pounding on the back of a guy's head is not regular wrestling and kicking high as an entry technique or even a simple direct attack is an amatuer mistake... Not something an advanced student would do in a DUEL with a wrestler. How could he be surprised by that simple tewaza if he were really a blackbelt?

I'm going to say this is an exception and not a typical example of style Vs. style match up in a mutually agreed to in advance type competition...

Kimura himself was cross training in Judo and western boxing back in the 1950s. Did he see weakness or limits in his Judo? No, he was undefeated champion but for self defense he wanted better striking tools to complement his grappling skills...

There are individuals, students of traditional arts that know how to use their skills for SD. Underestimating a guy because he only does one style is a big mistake because there are ALWAYS EXCEPTIONS to every rule... TKD or wing chun, karatedo or kung Fu... Be careful when you make the generalizations about a particular style.

[Tom Yum]

Originally Posted by Tant01

Kimura himself was cross training in Judo and western boxing back in the 1950s. Did he see weakness or limits in his Judo? No, he was undefeated champion but for self defense he wanted better striking tools to complement his grappling skills...

There are individuals, students of traditional arts that know how to use their skills for SD. Underestimating a guy because he only does one style is a big mistake because there are ALWAYS EXCEPTIONS to every rule... TKD or wing chun, karatedo or kung Fu... Be careful when you make the generalizations about a particular style.

Tant, I have to agree with you on this. In general combat athletes are better prepared thatn most TMAs, but like you said there are exceptions to this. I think a wrestler with enough matches and rolling could probably takedown most MA-ists. No offense to MA-ists but wrestlers are good at what they do. Now if you're talking about a BB in judo or jiujitsu, I would agree that a competitive wrestler would have more difficulty, because judo and JJ fighters are well versed in grappling as well.

Wrestlers are the boxers of the grappling world. Boxers train to hurt a guy with their fists; wrestlers train to bring a guy down fast and control him.

Your posts are allways entertaining in a very truthfull way.

[Tom Yum]

Originally Posted by Ground Pounder

Stay away from Hollywood Jet Lee/Van Dam/Steven Saegal movies because they are about as cloe to reality as a slug is tasty.

Hey, I find that insulting....JJ.

[Tant01]

Originally Posted by Tom Yum

... No offense to MA-ists but wrestlers are good at what they do. ....
....

Indeed, especially if they train at the university or olympic level. The same could be said for pro football players. The mindset is similar. They do not fear hard contact at all. They thrive on it!

[Ground Pounder]

[QUOTE=Tant01]One mistake Pounder. If you assume that any "regular" old wrestler can takedown the advanced blackbelt you're in for a wake up call of your own...QUOTE]


See it's people like you that watch to many Jet Li movies lol. I will say this for starters... You know what a black belt is? It's simply a knowledge period. It doesn't make you tough and certainly doesn't teach you to take a ass wooping. You need to watch the UFC's a little more I think. When was the last time a "stand up fighter" won? Never happened yet. All the good fighters that went in knew some sort of ground fighting or only ground fighting.
And in remarks to your comment. As soon as a wrestler shoots in on a regular stand up artist in any style with no knowledge of grappling is done for. And so you know I speek from experience in many years in martial arts. I will tell you right now your average blackbelt 3rd degree or whatever will not win against a average boxer. Nor will he win against an average wrestler. Both have much more devistating "realistic" and "effective" techniques that they learned "ringing" and know how to take a punch and how to to deliver one correctly. I had 3 different blackbelts before I ever joined the all army boxing team. And I will tell you this. I had a rude awakening when I thought I was going to win with straight knowledge. Experience overcomes knowlege when it comes to defending yourself maybe someday you will learn that.

Nothing against any of you all, but it seems you spend most of you time in here and training your average 3 hrs a week on Tuesday and Thursday like most MA's do. I train up to 7 days a week in grappling, stand-up and various other styles with weapons. My 3rd instructor had over 1000 MA's that attended his MA camp in big bear to see who would make it through. 92% quit and some others were hurt or had other excuses. Oh this was a 18+ camp so there were no kiddies.

In my closing I will say this: I speek from experience not from any comic books, movies or dream world I wanna be Jet Li/Steven Seagal "who got kicked out of my one of the studios I train at" or anyone like that. I dont read on MA alot I live it through live experiences and hard training. I love MA more than anyone in this forum I will say that. Any you think you can hang give me a phone number and I will gladly give you a invitation to one of the studios that I train at in Hollywood, Hunnington Beach, Portland many more... And you might have a small fraction of a chance of even being looked at to fight over here but it's very doubtful. I went to Megatons in Phoenix beat their state shoot fighting champion, had a 8-0 Army boxing record vs Air Force, Marines and Team Mexico. I wrestled for my entire life and with all of this I was still being looked at hard before I could even think of fighting.

Ok this is a waste of my time because some skinny lil geek that goes to MA with his bag of MA books and rubber knives is gunna reply to this by saying: Ummmm... Well.... Technicly speeking.... Ummm actually.... Don't make me laugh...

Ground and Pound 'Em!

[academian]

what do you think about this sensei sake?

[Tant01]

[QUOTE=Ground Pounder]

Originally Posted by Tant01

One mistake Pounder. If you assume that any "regular" old wrestler can takedown the advanced blackbelt you're in for a wake up call of your own...QUOTE]


See it's people like you that watch to many Jet Li movies lol. I will say this for starters... You know what a black belt is? .....

And in remarks to your comment. As soon as a wrestler shoots in on a regular stand up artist in any style with no knowledge of grappling is done for. .....


In my closing I will say this: I speek from experience not from any comic books, movies or dream world I wanna be Jet Li/Steven Seagal ...
.... Any you think you can hang give me a phone number and I will gladly give you a invitation to one of the studios that I train at in Hollywood, Hunnington Beach, Portland many more... ....

Don't make me laugh...

Ground and Pound 'Em!

Well!! Lets all get on our knees and worship SGT Pounder! Again with the generalizations, eh Mr?



Who the hell is Jet Li?


You call yourself Ground Pounder and yet fail to recognize a student from the old school (knockem down-N-stompem)

I don't know any blackbelts that have "no knowledge of grappling". You see for the last 20 years or so this thing called BJJ started a kind of grappling revolution in the martial arts world....

Yeah, so ALL blackbelts are wussies that only do standup. Seems like you know everything... I better come to your school and get myself educated...


All the best...

[Ground Pounder]

[QUOTE=Tant01][QUOTE=Ground Pounder]Who the hell is Jet Li?


You call yourself Ground Pounder and yet fail to recognize a student from the old school (knockem down-N-stompem)

I don't know any blackbelts that have "no knowledge of grappling".QUOTE]

I am thinking of the movie star martial artist guess I am mispelling his name? Sorry I don't watch many movies like I said because all I get out of those are good laughs.

And as far as blackbelts with grappling knowledge. I will say this. The ones that are going to win are the better grapplers. Unless it is a close grappling match "because both are good grapplers" and the better stand up fighter knows too get away and make it a stand up fight.

And grappling did not becore popular until the UFC's and thats a fact. So you make it sound like every blackbelt you know is experienced on the ground. Everyone has some sort of grappling knowledge even my grandma does from watching that fake WWF fake wrestling crap. Does that mean she can go out and win a fight if it comes down to grappling?

And btw fyi you can come to my studio anytime or any other studio where I train at and see how long you last. I hope you have balls of steel and no pressure points because most the white belts where I train and at my studio can take a black belt out in less than 30 seconds. And they love torturing people that come into the studios with all that black belt pride haha. But than again the belt is only a knowledge... Ever heard of someone that has a white belt for 4 years? Go to Gene's and see how long it takes before you get a yellow!

This is my grappling instructor. The one that introduced grappling to Bruce Lee and the only man to have ever beaten Bruce Lee.

Gene Labell. The same one that put Steven Segal asleep in seconds after Segal said he could get out of Gene's choke with a groin strike. Gene said no you can't. Segal said yes I can. And so Gene put the hold on and Segal hit Gene in the balls and was put to sleep unconsious.

Stick it in your a$$ if you dont like reality -

[Tant01]

I'm a short stick guy (Yawara or "Judo" stick) "Uncle" Gene has many students, some of us go way (way) back. Maybe you should add a dose of modesty to your RIPPING attitude before someone really finds you. The short stick stuff I picked up years ago became the foundation for my Tanto-Jutsu and now I'm taking it to karambits (silat). It's the cutting edge in CQB. If I were still playing I'd be about 5 or 6dan by now...Yeah, Judo...

[HtTKar]

even my grandma does from watching that fake WWF fake wrestling crap. Does that mean she can go out and win a fight if it comes down to grappling?

maybe Tant01 taught her back in the day

[SamuraiGuy]

I think this guy is just trying to sound important... you learn all this shit./.. and MAYBE.. MAYBE you can come to one of the places I train at... and I train everyday and all that shit.... how do you know the shit your training is so superior to everyone else... and how could yo uhave an 8-0 boxing record if you got a rude awakening... wouldnt that have been a loss.... and I wouldnt think your all that great... I bet you Ray Lewis could beat the **** out of you and he prolly knows 0 Martial arts.... actually Ray Lewis could prolly beat the **** out of most people.... except for me of course LOL

[Tant01]

Ahh, true indeed, we really need to invite anyone to the (Judo) club with warmth and genuine interest in their well being. Usually if they have some training in a standup art and an ego they become humble enough after they hit the deck a few times. There's no need to slam it in their face by having some white belt embarrass them on the mat.

There is no prereqiusite for "balls of steel" or a shelf life for the new guy. Judo is about making better people not making people better fighters. It just takes some folks a while longer to grasp the the real meaning of "Ju" ...