A question for BJJ'ers...

Spider Web · 03-31-2005, 05:23 PM

I have a question I have been wanting to ask. Let's say your about to be in an altercation and it is inevitable. Your opponet is NOT a skilled grappler. But here's the deal, let's say he has one of those physique's where all of his weight is in the middle, okay he is fat and dumpy, outweighs you 60lbs. Let's say you throw all the Vale Tudo in book at him but you end up locking up with him, what would be some good ideas as far as where to take the fight from here? I am very new to BJJ (first month actually) and my coach explained to me that you never want to pull someone into your guard on the street so with that in mind I know that several of you can give me some great option's and I look forward to your reply's!

vincechoo · 03-31-2005, 07:49 PM

use your close quarters tools: headbutts, elbows, knees, throat bites, hairpulls, ear pulls,
and when he wants to back off trip or throw him to the ground. once he's on the ground you should maintain top position for knee rides and looking to finish with strikes, kicks or subs (last in my book)

EmptyneSs · 03-31-2005, 08:02 PM

when u lock up with him, grab his head or grip his ears hard and pull his skull nosefirst into your knee. repeat until he is dust.

**Hardball** · 03-31-2005, 10:11 PM

Walk away and go somewhere to practice. You may not be ready yet. Practice, Practice, Practice. Walk away from trouble when you can. Practice, daily practice; that is the secret. Practice when you are away from the dojo, practice at the dojo. Just practice.

Tant01 · 03-31-2005, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Ward

I have a question I have been wanting to ask. Let's say your about to be in an altercation and it is inevitable. Your opponet is NOT a skilled grappler. But here's the deal, let's say he ...outweighs you 60lbs...

Easy answer? There is none! Right answer? PRACTICE MORE. What do you DO? Lower your center of gravity, get your HANDS in a defensive position. move!! If it's "inevitable" I assume he's attacking you and you have no room to evade? What's left to DO victim boy?

ATTACK! Forget BJJ or "vale tudo" and lift your lead leg up as he gets close NOW bring it down HARD (STOMP) his lead foot. NOW HIT HIM with your fist (easy, you don't want to break your unprotected hand) Just punch his nose! Then lift your foot again like you mean to stomp (BREAK) his other foot! PUNCH HIM AGAIN! Stomp and punch untill he backs up or falls down trying then stomp and kick him a few more times Or JUMP ON NOW AND DO YOUR BJJ "KIMURA" or cross lock, choke him out or just keep punching...

If you were learning real Judo you wouldn't need to ask this question...

Spider Web · 04-01-2005, 12:24 AM

I believed I directed this question to BJJ'ers, no disrespect but I'm not particularly interested in Judo. Anyway, let me rephrase the question, I am quite capable on my feet, if I have my preference I'll stay on my feet. The question I was asking is when you are fighting or let's say rolling w/ a very heavy person that carrie's all their weight in their stomach what are some idea's as to how you would attack this person from a grappling (BJJ)standpoint, obviously I wouldn't pull guard? Just perging for some feedback.

Take care!

unclejoe357 · 04-01-2005, 02:18 AM

Who cares if he has a beer belly, if you cant get a closed guard use an open one.

Just like in the dojo, its a decent position for you to have him in. You'll learn to defend strikes from there, do subs like omoplata, triangle choke, Kimura armlock, armbar etc. how to gain the mount and how to get back on your feet.

If nobody is around then a triangle followed by a dozen strikes to the face might do the trick. Just watch he dosent try and bite the family jewels!

If anybody else is around(99.9% of the time) then immediately start working to get back on your feet, if that means putting him in your guard- fine. Just dont spend too much time there.

EmptyneSs · 04-01-2005, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Ward

I believed I directed this question to BJJ'ers, no disrespect but I'm not particularly interested in Judo. Anyway, let me rephrase the question, I am quite capable on my feet, if I have my preference I'll stay on my feet. The question I was asking is when you are fighting or let's say rolling w/ a very heavy person that carrie's all their weight in their stomach what are some idea's as to how you would attack this person from a grappling (BJJ)standpoint, obviously I wouldn't pull guard? Just perging for some feedback.

Take care!

ive grappled a few fat guys before. the guard works a bit, because it can stop their advance, but the problem is they might try and lift u and slam u. u can counter this by grabbing a leg, and tripping him, or triangling his leg and then going into a foot hold. taking their backs is good if u can choke them out fast, but the problem in that is alot of fat guys have fat necks, and if u are a smaller guy, getting that choke will be harder. this one guy i grappled had such a fat neck i couldnt choke him out no matter what i tried. i couldnt even triangle him cause he was so fucking fat. it sucked.

u gotta really avoid getting pinned, cause thats what they do. they pin u and wont let u up cause its easy as **** for them.

Tant01 · 04-01-2005, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Ward

I believed I directed this question to BJJ'ers, no disrespect but I'm not particularly interested in Judo....
...
Take care!

Mr. Ward. Brazilian "Jiu-Jutsu" IS Judo.... Newaza (ground work) The strangling, the choking, the armlocks, the positions etc... Judo. It's all Judo.

"There is no technique in BJJ that can not be found in traditional kodokan judo"

Mark Tripp (6th Dan)

pstevens · 04-01-2005, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Ward

my coach explained to me that you never want to pull someone into your guard on the street

Hmmm... Why would he tell you this? In a REAL fight, most positions you get into, including clinch are by default or set-up (if you can). Most of the time, you end up in positions you don't choose to be in. From there, you need to work out of it. The guard was created for such a scenario. You shouldn't get into the attitude of "I'm not going to pull guard ever." Rather, you should avoid getting put on your back, but also train to fight from there.

Anyway, my experience with fighting heavier guys is to try to stay on top. Knee-on-stomach positions, side mount... Really put your weight on them. They will gas out. You don't want to be on the bottom, where you're likely to pass out. But everyone is right. Walk away from a confrontation you have doubts about. Go train.

mma_fan81 · 04-01-2005, 10:50 AM

Although it sounds stupid to pull guard on the street, it can be done safely. I've done it on concrete sparring with a friend in his back yard. He's a Muay Thai practitioner so I didn't want to stand-up to him so I threw a lazy kick on purpose to his side, he caught my leg (which I wanted him to do) then I grabbed his head, jumped my other leg up around him and voila! full guard! just make sure to tuck your chin in as you fall. He pulled out of an armbar but stood up for a heel hook and tapped.

Tant01 · 04-01-2005, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mma_fan81

.... I didn't want to stand-up to him so I threw a lazy kick on purpose to his side, he caught my leg (which I wanted him to do) then I grabbed his head, jumped my other leg up around him and voila! full guard! just make sure to tuck your chin in as you fall. He pulled out of an armbar but stood up for a heel hook and tapped.

Risky but I've seen the same kind of thing fall right into Sankaku jime (Triangle choke) That's good Judo!

mma_fan81 · 04-01-2005, 09:13 PM

No, I pulled guard on him. How would he be able to triangle me while he's in my full guard?

Ronson · 04-01-2005, 10:04 PM

I pull guard while I lie on concrete strewn with broken glass, bricks, needles, and lava flows. Then my armbar or RNC gets countered with a bite and an eye jab. That's all BJJ is all about so I have been told - pullin' guard and throwing on ineffective "sport" submissions. I've been so foolish, someone please show me the way.

Tom Yum · 04-01-2005, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronson

I pull guard while I lie on concrete strewn with broken glass, bricks, needles, and lava flows. Then my armbar or RNC gets countered with a bite and an eye jab. That's all BJJ is all about so I have been told - pullin' guard and throwing on ineffective "sport" submissions. I've been so foolish, someone please show me the way.

To counter the bite and eye jab, focus all your chi in your midsection and visualize a giant blue fireball. Next step involves screaming HADOUKEN!!! while releasing the fireball into the attacker.

Problem solved.

03-31-2005, 05:23 PM	#1 (permalink)
Spider Web Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Yukon, Oklahoma and Palestine Texas Posts: 36	A question for BJJ'ers... I have a question I have been wanting to ask. Let's say your about to be in an altercation and it is inevitable. Your opponet is NOT a skilled grappler. But here's the deal, let's say he has one of those physique's where all of his weight is in the middle, okay he is fat and dumpy, outweighs you 60lbs. Let's say you throw all the Vale Tudo in book at him but you end up locking up with him, what would be some good ideas as far as where to take the fight from here? I am very new to BJJ (first month actually) and my coach explained to me that you never want to pull someone into your guard on the street so with that in mind I know that several of you can give me some great option's and I look forward to your reply's!

03-31-2005, 10:11 PM	#4 (permalink)
Hardball Premiere Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,316	Walk away and go somewhere to practice. You may not be ready yet. Practice, Practice, Practice. Walk away from trouble when you can. Practice, daily practice; that is the secret. Practice when you are away from the dojo, practice at the dojo. Just practice. __________________ The Way of the Warrior is Practice. Daily practice, accumulate practice minute by minute, hour by hour and day by day. {Book of 5 Rings} Mike Brewers 2008 Sit up challenge 44,000/100,000 running balance.(Crunches) Kicks 6,300/100,000

04-01-2005, 12:24 AM	#6 (permalink)
Spider Web Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Yukon, Oklahoma and Palestine Texas Posts: 36	A question for BJJ'ers... I believed I directed this question to BJJ'ers, no disrespect but I'm not particularly interested in Judo. Anyway, let me rephrase the question, I am quite capable on my feet, if I have my preference I'll stay on my feet. The question I was asking is when you are fighting or let's say rolling w/ a very heavy person that carrie's all their weight in their stomach what are some idea's as to how you would attack this person from a grappling (BJJ)standpoint, obviously I wouldn't pull guard? Just perging for some feedback. Take care!

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03-31-2005, 07:49 PM	#2 (permalink)
vincechoo Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 44	use your close quarters tools: headbutts, elbows, knees, throat bites, hairpulls, ear pulls, and when he wants to back off trip or throw him to the ground. once he's on the ground you should maintain top position for knee rides and looking to finish with strikes, kicks or subs (last in my book)

03-31-2005, 08:02 PM	#3 (permalink)
EmptyneSs Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Cali Posts: 2,120	when u lock up with him, grab his head or grip his ears hard and pull his skull nosefirst into your knee. repeat until he is dust.

04-01-2005, 02:18 AM	#7 (permalink)
unclejoe357 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Deptford NJ Posts: 29	Who cares if he has a beer belly, if you cant get a closed guard use an open one. Just like in the dojo, its a decent position for you to have him in. You'll learn to defend strikes from there, do subs like omoplata, triangle choke, Kimura armlock, armbar etc. how to gain the mount and how to get back on your feet. If nobody is around then a triangle followed by a dozen strikes to the face might do the trick. Just watch he dosent try and bite the family jewels! If anybody else is around(99.9% of the time) then immediately start working to get back on your feet, if that means putting him in your guard- fine. Just dont spend too much time there.

04-01-2005, 10:50 AM	#11 (permalink)
mma_fan81 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NYC Posts: 29	Although it sounds stupid to pull guard on the street, it can be done safely. I've done it on concrete sparring with a friend in his back yard. He's a Muay Thai practitioner so I didn't want to stand-up to him so I threw a lazy kick on purpose to his side, he caught my leg (which I wanted him to do) then I grabbed his head, jumped my other leg up around him and voila! full guard! just make sure to tuck your chin in as you fall. He pulled out of an armbar but stood up for a heel hook and tapped.

04-01-2005, 09:13 PM	#13 (permalink)
mma_fan81 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NYC Posts: 29	No, I pulled guard on him. How would he be able to triangle me while he's in my full guard?

04-01-2005, 10:04 PM	#14 (permalink)
Ronson Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 152	I pull guard while I lie on concrete strewn with broken glass, bricks, needles, and lava flows. Then my armbar or RNC gets countered with a bite and an eye jab. That's all BJJ is all about so I have been told - pullin' guard and throwing on ineffective "sport" submissions. I've been so foolish, someone please show me the way.

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