Martial Arts for Small Guys? - Page 2

Garland · 07-18-2005, 02:26 AM

brazilian jiu jitsu was created by a small guy (Helio Gracie) in order to defeat a much larger opponent in a drawn out fight. (somebody the smaller guy couldn't trade blows with)
Muay thai kickboxers (in Thailand, not the Dutch monsters you see in K-1) are pretty tiny, and are notorious for carpet bombing much larger strikers. This is due to rigorous conditioning, and better (not complicated, but simple and "easy") techniques.
The FMA were designed to teach weapons and unarmed fighting skills and tactics quickly and effectively. The FMA are the best arts for edged and impact weapons (even people like the "reality based martial arts" folks draw from the FMA, almost by the book, and throw in perhaps a few things from one or two other martial arts and call their thing something else.)

So... my advice would be to find a good instructor who can teach you two or more of these arts and how to train and apply them.
An Inosanto guy, an Adjarn Chai guy (and/or...but AND is better, another thai trainer)*, a Gracie guy, an Eric Paulson (CSW) guy, a Sayoc Kali guy, or...if you're incredibly lucky, somebody who draws from two or more of these proud lineages.

*a TBA guy from Adjarn Chai's camp will show you the best technique. You will learn the most you can get in skill, outside of training in Thailand with the RIGHT people, from a TBA instructor. A different thai boxing trainer will show you a different, but equally valid, set of routines, and in my experience, will train you to fight over training you proper technique and form (which manifest later in the form of skill). Learning to just use strength will only get you so far, so learning the technique and then training the conditioning and the other stuff is much better)

OmaPlata · 07-21-2005, 12:15 AM

this is incorrect, it was learned from the the Japenese Kount by Carlos Gracie Sr, who taught it to his brother Helio.

shamster · 07-27-2005, 09:25 AM

I am pretty much your size as well. I'm just shy of 5'10", and about 140 lbs, so in a way, I'm a tad "smaller" than you even.

I'm still a white belt in BJJ, and I can tell you that you will be tossed around and overpowered at first. The fact is that us smaller guys will need to have even better technique than others to be able to tap them out. I've only recently been able to tap out a few people. One of those was a 240 pounder. He had some MA experience but was new to BJJ. So yes, bjj can definitely overcome a bigger guy, but you will need to have better technique.

At least in my case, because I can get pushed down pretty easily by a big guy, I usually end up on my back. Thus, I've learned a lot about playing the guard, and how to escape from being mounted and recovering the guard. If you are like me, the bigger guys will have an easier time trying to obtain the top position. Definitely try to learn as much as you can about fighting and defending from the bottom.

Another thing I noticed is that the lighter guys tend to be faster and are often more flexible. Learn to use that to your advantage.

Garland · 07-27-2005, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmaPlata

this is incorrect, it was learned from the the Japenese Kount by Carlos Gracie Sr, who taught it to his brother Helio.

That's right. My bad.
But Helio was the one who field tested it and made adaptations, correct?
If this is so, then did he not alter the art to make it something more proficient?

Watchdog · 07-27-2005, 05:43 PM

Look into JKD. Bruce Lee was only about 5 foot 7 inches but he developed quick speed, strong power, and elusive footwork that served him well against opponents larger and heavier than he was.

Camarda · 07-27-2005, 06:14 PM

So... my advice would be to find a good instructor who can teach you two or more of these arts and how to train and apply them.
An Inosanto guy, an Adjarn Chai guy (and/or...but AND is better, another thai trainer)*, a Gracie guy, an Eric Paulson (CSW) guy, a Sayoc Kali guy, or...if you're incredibly lucky, somebody who draws from two or more of these proud lineages

That sounds like Greg Nelson applies to all of those except maybe Sayoc Kali.

Tant01 · 07-27-2005, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garland

That's right. My bad.
But Helio was the one who field tested it and made adaptations, correct?
If this is so, then did he not alter the art to make it something more proficient?

Debatable...

The art handed to Carlos Gracie was already adapted to WINNING against western wrestlers and boxers by the Judoka that gave it to them.

Helio was still learning when he fought Kimura...

07-18-2005, 02:26 AM	#16 (permalink)
Garland Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 5,013 Groans: 1 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	brazilian jiu jitsu was created by a small guy (Helio Gracie) in order to defeat a much larger opponent in a drawn out fight. (somebody the smaller guy couldn't trade blows with) Muay thai kickboxers (in Thailand, not the Dutch monsters you see in K-1) are pretty tiny, and are notorious for carpet bombing much larger strikers. This is due to rigorous conditioning, and better (not complicated, but simple and "easy") techniques. The FMA were designed to teach weapons and unarmed fighting skills and tactics quickly and effectively. The FMA are the best arts for edged and impact weapons (even people like the "reality based martial arts" folks draw from the FMA, almost by the book, and throw in perhaps a few things from one or two other martial arts and call their thing something else.) So... my advice would be to find a good instructor who can teach you two or more of these arts and how to train and apply them. An Inosanto guy, an Adjarn Chai guy (and/or...but AND is better, another thai trainer), a Gracie guy, an Eric Paulson (CSW) guy, a Sayoc Kali guy, or...if you're incredibly lucky, somebody who draws from two or more of these proud lineages. a TBA guy from Adjarn Chai's camp will show you the best technique. You will learn the most you can get in skill, outside of training in Thailand with the RIGHT people, from a TBA instructor. A different thai boxing trainer will show you a different, but equally valid, set of routines, and in my experience, will train you to fight over training you proper technique and form (which manifest later in the form of skill). Learning to just use strength will only get you so far, so learning the technique and then training the conditioning and the other stuff is much better) __________________ homo homini lupus

07-27-2005, 05:43 PM	#20 (permalink)
Watchdog Registered User Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 59 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Look into JKD. Bruce Lee was only about 5 foot 7 inches but he developed quick speed, strong power, and elusive footwork that served him well against opponents larger and heavier than he was. __________________ South Bay Jeet Kune Do Academy http://www.freewebs.com/kalijeetkunedo

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07-21-2005, 12:15 AM	#17 (permalink)
OmaPlata Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: san diego Posts: 1,404 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	this is incorrect, it was learned from the the Japenese Kount by Carlos Gracie Sr, who taught it to his brother Helio.

07-27-2005, 09:25 AM	#18 (permalink)
shamster Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: NJ Posts: 152 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I am pretty much your size as well. I'm just shy of 5'10", and about 140 lbs, so in a way, I'm a tad "smaller" than you even. I'm still a white belt in BJJ, and I can tell you that you will be tossed around and overpowered at first. The fact is that us smaller guys will need to have even better technique than others to be able to tap them out. I've only recently been able to tap out a few people. One of those was a 240 pounder. He had some MA experience but was new to BJJ. So yes, bjj can definitely overcome a bigger guy, but you will need to have better technique. At least in my case, because I can get pushed down pretty easily by a big guy, I usually end up on my back. Thus, I've learned a lot about playing the guard, and how to escape from being mounted and recovering the guard. If you are like me, the bigger guys will have an easier time trying to obtain the top position. Definitely try to learn as much as you can about fighting and defending from the bottom. Another thing I noticed is that the lighter guys tend to be faster and are often more flexible. Learn to use that to your advantage.

07-27-2005, 06:14 PM	#21 (permalink)
Camarda Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 6 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	So... my advice would be to find a good instructor who can teach you two or more of these arts and how to train and apply them. An Inosanto guy, an Adjarn Chai guy (and/or...but AND is better, another thai trainer)*, a Gracie guy, an Eric Paulson (CSW) guy, a Sayoc Kali guy, or...if you're incredibly lucky, somebody who draws from two or more of these proud lineages That sounds like Greg Nelson applies to all of those except maybe Sayoc Kali.

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