tradition?

[danfaggella]

if wushu and some forms of kung fu are not so well rounded and not very much based on effectiveness but tradition, why are they practiced? it seems like if you practice wushu you learn how to perform with flips and flexibility, why do people practice it alone?

another interesting thought to comment on: would these such graceful skillful yet not-so-precisely effective martial arts benefit a real practical fighter? would such grace and flexibilty allone with certain wushu skill not benefit any fighter?

[Gung Gi]

Mike makes an intersting point.

A lot practice for the "art" of it.

Take Kendo, archery, etc.

One may not be able to use their skills in a actual situation.

But then again, they may not have to.

Part of martial art training is discipline.

And if one is mentally disciplined, they will have far less chance using a skill or getting into a confrontation.

[IPON]

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

Real fighters are a tiny, tiny cross section of the martial arts community. Guro Dan Inosanto once told me I should feel truly blessed if I had a school where 5% of the students had any real "fighter" in them at all.

I think this is an important point. True fighters, those with heart, are rare and this has direct impact on the execution and practice of all arts TMA or other

[47MartialMan]

Originally Posted by danfaggella

if wushu and some forms of kung fu are not so well rounded and not very much based on effectiveness but tradition, why are they practiced? it seems like if you practice wushu you learn how to perform with flips and flexibility, why do people practice it alone?

another interesting thought to comment on: would these such graceful skillful yet not-so-precisely effective martial arts benefit a real practical fighter? would such grace and flexibilty allone with certain wushu skill not benefit any fighter?

I guess wu shu is more sport/athletic oriented

[SamuraiGuy]

This is my take on the whole situation.

Krav Maga and MMA for fighting and self defense, and competitions... maybe no Krav Maga for competitions lol.


Which is all I do now, Ive always liked fighting and like to fight people and am generally looking for people to fight. Its not that im crazy and like to hurt people, I just feel its the ultimate form of competition and self test and its just amazingly fun to do.

With that said, I also plan on learning to fight with a 6 Foot Staff just for fun, cause I think its cool. Do I plan on carrying one around with me to fight off attackers.. no a knife would be better, but im not gonna carry one of those either.

I think the TMA and sport martial arts like Wushu have their place and are cool, and I think it would be cool to know them, I wish I could flip like a Wushu guy, just for the coolness of it, not to be better at fighting.

Ill stop babbling now.

[47MartialMan]

Originally Posted by SamuraiGuy

This is my take on the whole situation.

Krav Maga and MMA for fighting and self defense, and competitions... maybe no Krav Maga for competitions lol.


Which is all I do now, Ive always liked fighting and like to fight people and am generally looking for people to fight. Its not that im crazy and like to hurt people, I just feel its the ultimate form of competition and self test and its just amazingly fun to do.

With that said, I also plan on learning to fight with a 6 Foot Staff just for fun, cause I think its cool. Do I plan on carrying one around with me to fight off attackers.. no a knife would be better, but im not gonna carry one of those either.

I think the TMA and sport martial arts like Wushu have their place and are cool, and I think it would be cool to know them, I wish I could flip like a Wushu guy, just for the coolness of it, not to be better at fighting.

Ill stop babbling now.

Sounds like youthful exburance. A large chance you wont feel this way 25 years or more from now.

[danfaggella]

i feel that a MARTAIL ART was orrigionally developed to be such, so its strage that people would learn wu shu and some wierd animal kung fu if they were not really all that helpful in a fight....

though im sure that learning these skills and techniques can only better a fighter, i'm sure wu shu has some little things that many many MMA fighters would find unique and usefull, dont you agree?

[47MartialMan]

Originally Posted by danfaggella

A.)i feel that a MARTAIL ART was orrigionally developed to be such, so its strage that people would learn wu shu and some wierd animal kung fu if they were not really all that helpful in a fight....

B.)though im sure that learning these skills and techniques can only better a fighter, i'm sure wu shu has some little things that many many MMA fighters would find unique and usefull, dont you agree?

A.) I do agree that martial arts were developed for fighting-hence its very own definition. However, wu shu was a term instilled by the PROC to re-define its meaning for the sake of Nationalism-or a national way to describe a national sport. Wierd animal kung fu, as you call it, is a misconception stemming from the theatrical/media/movie genre. Any tactic, use by any martial art, can lay to description or analogy of a animal. Animal names or analogiy was a simple way to describe such tactics. If one is a deep-rooted CMA, they would understand this.

B.) Hey, ANYTHING or ANY ART, that has to do with physical combat will have benefits. There are some that have better over others. The best thing to do is train to become versitile.

[blend]

Originally Posted by danfaggella

i feel that a MARTAIL ART was orrigionally developed to be such, so its strage that people would learn wu shu and some wierd animal kung fu if they were not really all that helpful in a fight....

mmm... so, would it be fair for me to say from this comment, that you assume anyone who studies a martial art these days does so (or should do so) because they want to learn how to "fight"?

if you don't mind let me ask you some questions danfaggella... and these are for stimulating thought and self-reflection for not just yourself, but all who care to.

(1) what other possible reasons would people learn such arts for?

(2) what percentage of your entire life do you spend in a real "fight" situation (if any)?... and after you have looked at this question honestly, does that percentage justify the time, energy and money you (or others) put into your art?

(3) what is the "real" and "true" motivation for you choosing to learn an art?

for me personally, i love the arts and find them fascinating for so many different reasons. some of those reasons already shared by other posters on this thread... be it, the ultimate one-on-one competitive test, the social bonding within a school, the deeper appreciation of a tradtional cultural practice, building of self-confidence, compassion, self-discipline, self-respect... and it goes on.

i believe we become more as a person by respecting and seeking to understand others. what motivates other people to do what they do? get into another's head and find out what makes them tick... then respect and appreciate that person for the unique expression they are.

blend

[EmptyneSs]

this one guy once asked me what martial art would be best for him to take so he could fight better at parties. i told him not to even bother training.

[bodhisattva]

Originally Posted by danfaggella

if wushu and some forms of kung fu are not so well rounded and not very much based on effectiveness but tradition, why are they practiced? it seems like if you practice wushu you learn how to perform with flips and flexibility, why do people practice it alone?

another interesting thought to comment on: would these such graceful skillful yet not-so-precisely effective martial arts benefit a real practical fighter? would such grace and flexibilty allone with certain wushu skill not benefit any fighter?

ahtleticism always helps a fighter.

the real fighting arts require a couple of things
1) hard work: sweat. running out, and constantly demanding more of yourself.
2) contest: getting submitted. getting hit. getting bested.

the first 1, people avoid like the plague - no one wants to SWEAT! the second, people avoid like the plague - no one wants to be BESTED!

the thing is, both elements cause a person to look at and get to know their EGO, and getting to KNOW their ego will eventually mean GIVING IT UP. and that is why they avoid those two elements: sweat and contest. most people are interested in maintaining their ego, not losing it.

so a lot of people end up going to "Joe's Black Crane Kung Fu" and learn a bunch of weird, esoteric looking movements and worrying about their next belt.

they are the people that are more interested in IMAGE and less interested in PERFORMANCE.

there are far more IMAGE people in this world than PERFORMANCE people.

that is why the other schools still exist.

and that is why when you go to a REAL fight gym, you meet some of the greatest people you've ever known. not because they are "hard asses".. but because they are the rare breed that looks life in the face, as free of image as they can manage to be..

and that never fails to make for a person that is good to know..interesting, friendly, and real.

[bodhisattva]

Originally Posted by blend

mmm... so, would it be fair for me to say from this comment, that you assume anyone who studies a martial art these days does so (or should do so) because they want to learn how to "fight"?

agreed. saying we do this to "fight" is rather silly. fighting is retarded.

but when you do something "martial" you want it to work. otherwise, may as well do dance. or yoga. both of which are excellent pursuits.

but if you are doing "martial" art, it makes sense do WHAT WORKS.

That is why it is an "art" by the way. it gets a favored result within the physical world.

if it can't get that result, it isn't an "art" much less "martial".

[47MartialMan]

nice reply/post

Originally Posted by blend

A.) so, would it be fair for me to say from this comment, that you assume anyone who studies a martial art these days does so (or should do so) because they want to learn how to "fight"?
This is the first and foremost misconception and mis-understanding for BEGINNERS or lesser skilled. The equation is simplistic; martial art=fighting



(1) what other possible reasons would people learn such arts for?
Well, there is a grand point that the martial arts are designed for warfair/fighting. There are other ways/studies, other than martial arts, to develop things like discipline, self-esteem, charecter, etc. So why not take/study in these? Why are there blocking, striking, kicking, opponents, imaginary (kata) or otherwise (sparring), in the martial arts if it isnt for fighting?


(2) what percentage of your entire life do you spend in a real "fight" situation (if any)?... and after you have looked at this question honestly, does that percentage justify the time, energy and money you (or others) put into your art?
How true. Much time spent into the study of fighting or defense has to reflect the social environment of the practitioner. Strange, how it was a necessity in many eras where such combat, before modern weaponization, was needed. Therefore, looking back into history, martial arts were for fighting-period. But in a modern society, with laws and people enforcing laws, one cannot simply train to fight without consequences. To entertain the thought to study a martial art for fighting, i.e., ring matches, then age/time will creep up on such a practitioner. The point being, there are many other lucrative and less self-physical damage resulting from such matches, career choices. Common sense will dictate that it is rather obtuse to seek out fighting as a profession usually left to those that do not have much intelligence to get a career without the need for such physical strain. It maybe too presumptuous to state that the larger percentage of martial artists no longer train for the sheer desire to fight. The percentage that does are either youthful or egocentric.


(3) what is the "real" and "true" motivation for you choosing to learn an art?
Per A.) and (1)


(4) for me personally, i love the arts and find them fascinating for so many different reasons. some of those reasons already shared by other posters on this thread... be it, the ultimate one-on-one competitive test, the social bonding within a school, the deeper appreciation of a tradtional cultural practice, building of self-confidence, compassion, self-discipline, self-respect... and it goes on.
Per (1) and (2). The "art" of martial art, has been the main focus nowadays. Such as with the "art" of it, those other values or areas of worth become apparent. For my self defense curriculum, I invite people with other professions to give study to other situations or discussions of self defense in addition to physical applications. In other words, I invite a LEO, a Lawyer, and a Psychiatrist, to discuss and give study on the street application/conflicts (LEO), the legal ramifications (Lawyer), and the mental per practitioner, victim, and assailant (Psychiatrist). Upon a discussion with the Psychiatrist, was the subject of why a religious order, such a Buddhists Monks, will train in fighting methods which such activity is against their moral principles? The plausible answer was the Psychological Order of Surfeit. This is where a subject/person is exposed so much to something that other properties surface and such desires are expelled. Speaking to Buddhist monks and practitioners, many have no reason nor desire to practice or learn self defense. it is almost non-sensical to assume that Buddhist monks practiced for mere self defense.


(5) i believe we become more as a person by respecting and seeking to understand others. what motivates other people to do what they do? get into another's head and find out what makes them tick... then respect and appreciate that person for the unique expression they are.
This type of thought is the level of advanced or experienced martial artists.

blend