Krav Maga vs. other arts

[SamuraiGuy]

Im only speaking from personal experience with Krav Maga in regards to Novicio's question.

I dont think there is anything we do that isnt with a partner .... well ok.

Say hes teaching us how to throw a straight punch. He'll be in the front or wherever and everyone will be behind him, he will show us the technique, twisting the hips, reaching the hand out, keeping your fist vertical (krav maga thing) etc.

Then youll get a partner, and a pad, for straight punches its just a "tombstone" pad that you hold across your chest. They let you hold it across your face if you want to be more realistic but dont really recommend it. They want you to hold it against your body so that you can .... kinda.. somewhat... sorta.. feel like what getting hit is like. The partner will then practice the technique punching the crap out of the thing.

Then you switch and punch the crap out of the thing, then they ask if anyone has questions, and if they see any flaws they try to help you correct them.

This is the way most strikes are taught, actually all I think, thats a decent explanation , any questions on it I can explain more.

When you do things like crosses, or uppercuts we use focus mitts.



As for the self defense part, like... Front Choke, Choke From Behind, Side Choke, Front Choke with a push, Back choke with a push , etc.

Its sort of the same thing. They show you the technique, then have you try it with your partner for awhile. They generally tell you to go with partners of the same size at the start of training the new self defense. So 250 pound man is pushing 240 pound man or something.

But after awhile they tell you to do it once with your partner then switch up to anyone, so then its 250 pound man choking 110 pound girl.

Theres also sparring and that on top of just the regular class, but you dont have to fight anyone if you dont want too.

I have countless bruises, chipped teeth (forgot the mouth gaurd one day, ONE DAY!) and a few other injuries from the class, nothing too serious though.

ANy more questions ill be glad to help, this is a long post.

[novicio]

Hi Samurai,

That was very informative.

Thanks!

[Cyclops]

Samuraiguy,
Your clases sound alot like my Krav classes.

[SamuraiGuy]

Must be doing something right than haha.

[ftbllfreak14]

i have been reading a lot on how krav maga can get very costly very quick. HOw much on average do you all think it can get?

[EmptyneSs]

Originally Posted by SamuraiGuy

Im only speaking from personal experience with Krav Maga in regards to Novicio's question.

I dont think there is anything we do that isnt with a partner .... well ok.

Say hes teaching us how to throw a straight punch. He'll be in the front or wherever and everyone will be behind him, he will show us the technique, twisting the hips, reaching the hand out, keeping your fist vertical (krav maga thing) etc.

Then youll get a partner, and a pad, for straight punches its just a "tombstone" pad that you hold across your chest. They let you hold it across your face if you want to be more realistic but dont really recommend it. They want you to hold it against your body so that you can .... kinda.. somewhat... sorta.. feel like what getting hit is like. The partner will then practice the technique punching the crap out of the thing.

Then you switch and punch the crap out of the thing, then they ask if anyone has questions, and if they see any flaws they try to help you correct them.

This is the way most strikes are taught, actually all I think, thats a decent explanation , any questions on it I can explain more.

When you do things like crosses, or uppercuts we use focus mitts.



As for the self defense part, like... Front Choke, Choke From Behind, Side Choke, Front Choke with a push, Back choke with a push , etc.

Its sort of the same thing. They show you the technique, then have you try it with your partner for awhile. They generally tell you to go with partners of the same size at the start of training the new self defense. So 250 pound man is pushing 240 pound man or something.

But after awhile they tell you to do it once with your partner then switch up to anyone, so then its 250 pound man choking 110 pound girl.

Theres also sparring and that on top of just the regular class, but you dont have to fight anyone if you dont want too.

I have countless bruises, chipped teeth (forgot the mouth gaurd one day, ONE DAY!) and a few other injuries from the class, nothing too serious though.

ANy more questions ill be glad to help, this is a long post.

so what your saying is that your "krav maga" class is just watered down muay thai/boxing and bjj? cause thats exactly what u described.

[SamuraiGuy]

Watered down BJJ, and Muay Thai.... right I dont know where you got that.

First of all I didnt mention any grappling at all in there, so I have no idea where you got the BJJ from.

As a matter of fact though, our grappling is largely based on BJJ because its one of , if not the most effective grappling there is. However when we grapple we do it with strikes to the body and head, were allowed to push our elbows into peoples faces (unlike pure Jiu Jitsu) and other stuff. I guess you could say BJJ grappling is a kinda sissy version of our reality based grappling with strikes and whatnot?

Im not trying to diss bjj because I respect it, but dont try to make it seem like what we do is shit.

Also the strikes are alot like Muay Thai, I never said they werent, our instructor tells us we need to throw knees like Muay Thai Boxers, because generally they throw the best knees, were not interested in having our own fancy style with different ways of throwing a knee , we want what works best.

Even with saying its Muay Thai I cant see how it is watered down, but I've never had a pure Muay Thai class so I cant compare it to anything. Dont know how its watered down if to practice hooks Muay Thai guys punch focus mitts, and to practice hooks we punch focus mitts.

Also the basis of Krav Maga comes from the self defenses which arent a a part of Muay Thai and what seperates it. I assume from your arrogant post you do Muay Thai and think its the best, and thats exactly why we would use it for our fighting.... we use Krav Maga self defenses for front chokes or whatnot because thats what Krav Maga is for.

[EmptyneSs]

Originally Posted by SamuraiGuy

First of all I didnt mention any grappling at all in there, so I have no idea where you got the BJJ from.

every single one of those "self defense" chokes u listed are from ju jitsu.

Originally Posted by SamuraiGuy

I guess you could say BJJ grappling is a kinda sissy version of our reality based grappling with strikes and whatnot?

yeah bjj is sissy, even though your grappling is completely based on it. also u dont think ju jitsu guys know when to strike or train groundstrikes? what u think attaining all those superiour positions allows u to do ????? but u are right, your grappling is reality based, since its based on ju jitsu.

Originally Posted by SamuraiGuy

Im not trying to diss bjj because I respect it, but dont try to make it seem like what we do is shit.

uh no, dont say u are doing krav maga when what u are describing is pretty much just muay thai and jujitsu.

Originally Posted by SamuraiGuy

Also the strikes are alot like Muay Thai, I never said they werent, our instructor tells us we need to throw knees like Muay Thai Boxers, because generally they throw the best knees, were not interested in having our own fancy style with different ways of throwing a knee , we want what works best.

so i was right

[quote=SamuraiGuyEven with saying its Muay Thai I cant see how it is watered down, but I've never had a pure Muay Thai class so I cant compare it to anything. Dont know how its watered down if to practice hooks Muay Thai guys punch focus mitts, and to practice hooks we punch focus mitts.[/QUOTE] i say its watered down cause u arent learning the art itself to master it, you are just learning parts of it. u can be a jack of all trades, but a master of none.

Originally Posted by SamuraiGuy

Also the basis of Krav Maga comes from the self defenses which arent a a part of Muay Thai and what seperates it. I assume from your arrogant post you do Muay Thai and think its the best, and thats exactly why we would use it for our fighting.... we use Krav Maga self defenses for front chokes or whatnot because thats what Krav Maga is for.

most those " self defenses" are all str8 outta ju jitsu . and also, dont u think muay thai and ju jitsu practitioners learn "self defense" techniques in their training as well?

[eXcessiveForce]

I have done KM in the past, I do not think favorably of this style for several reasons.

The quesiton how would they do against a trained fighter you might need to clarify trained in what?

KM as best I can describe it is a brute force, overwhelm your opponenet system. For self defense it is probably okay, however their stance would leaves lots of opennings.

What I can say is try it out and see if you like it. That is always the best approach when evaluating a system.

[SamuraiGuy]

I never said how it would do against a trained attacker... but thats not what its for....

We also learn to fight, timing , distance, etc, but Krav Maga relies on more suprise... tries to make it so you are never actually in a fight your just beating someone down.

To the BJJ/Muay Thai guy, you obviously have some high opinions of BJJ and Muay Thai, and you have reason too. I didnt design Krav Maga so I dont know what they stole from either... Thing I dont understand is why you have your panties in a bunch because theres another art that uses the best forms of fighting.

It doesnt matter if its called ThaiBoxing/BJJ, Krav Maga, or WANG DO HA CHAPO KA RAKO, I'm gonna take what the best tools are. So what if Krav Maga is just BJJ and Thai Boxing, doesnt matter to me I just dont have to pay for two seperate schools.

[gregimotis]

Krav is a 'self-defense' style is it not? Therefore, how it would hold up against a boxer or a BJJ player is largely irrelevant. It isn't designed for drawn out competitions, it's designed for overwhelming muggers, thugs and such with high-percentage, hard hitting, direct attack.



Additionally (echoing Samariguy) who give a damn where the techniques come from? So they borrowed from BJJ, and BJJ borrowed from JJJ, and JJJ borrowed from who-knows-what which borrowed from rock/stick/club-kwon-do. What is with this 'style jealousy' some people have?

[eXcessiveForce]

Originally Posted by Zapatista

Okay. I'm basically new to martial arts (I did Kum Do for 4 months before ditching it because it's not practical) but I'd like to eventually compete in either MMA fighting or a specific art's competition. My question is, would Krav Maga be a good art to learn and use in a match? I'm trying to stay out of BJJ and I might do Muay Thai but I'm not sure yet. Would Krav Maga hold up in a fight with an experienced fighter? If I don't do Krav Maga what art should I do (keep in mind no BBJ and probably no Muay Thai) Thanks in advance for your replies.

This was the original posters question

Specificly they asked if it would be good in a match.

And they aked how it would hold up against an experienced fighter.


That being said, they also rule out two of the major competitive arts out there.

as for self defense again I will state it looks to be mostly brute force, it does not rely on technique as much as strenght and speed. So it does not appear to offer anything to help even the odds against larger or stronger opponents.

[gregimotis]

Fair enough - to the original post, it probably wouldn't hold up very well against competitive styles in that format.



As for self defense generally, it seems to me that the people who come to our gym for 'self defense' are mostly in need of aggresion training, if I can coin a phrase.
I'm probably less experienced the many on this board, but I'd venture that winning 'street fights' usually comes down to the willingness to attack first, and technical ability second. It's the mindset that makes one a combatant or a victim. Am I wrong?

[eXcessiveForce]

That is pretty person specific.

I believe Krav is pretty good in the aggression department. And aggression can take you a long way sometimes. However i had problems with some of the take downs that were taught, holds that weren't complete,

One drill was blasting pads with a series of hammerfists. Overwhelm seemed the principle, but there seemed to be lack of training on what happens when that fails.

Also I found the stance to square. It would be great if you were wearing a vest but it leaves an awful lot open.

But most of that is probably personal preference.

I would choose other styles over KM. Boxing, MT, BJJ, JKD for both self-defense and competition. With the only exception of BJJ for self defense as I believe it needs a stand up system for that.

[SamuraiGuy]

Agression is a big factor in Krav Maga as far as my training has gone, the plenty of hammer fists, and just all out going fricking crazy with punches knees, kicks elbows hammer fists w/e is as you said about aggression and brute force.

The reasoning behind this is alot of things like karate and that will say "and then your gonna punch him right under the eye socket"... well its kinda hard to aim that good in a fight, so if you throw 10 hammer fists at their head, its probable at least one will land in a very nice place, and a few others could also make good connection.

Also when throwing a flurry of blows, most people will get hit, people who arent trained fighters... arent going to sit in the pocket, duck, move, and counter punch.

They are probably just going to throw up their hands in front of their face and move back, so you just hammer fist their hands into their face.

To illustrate this point, next time you go to meet a friend or family member, or something, just walk at them and throw 3 punches at them. Not really trying to hit them, but close enough so they feel threatened. Watch what they do, hands up back up.

This is why in 95% of street fights the agressor wins, it plays out like this... one guy is scared to come in and get hit, so the other comes in and swings... the other guy doesnt like getting hit so he tries to defend, and back up while the other guy just keeps swinging.

They may through a punch or two but its just an attempt to get the person off of you , not a real attack.

Eventually the straightforeward agressive swinging attacker will connect with a few shots, then maybe take them down sit on them and punch their face in.