the cult of martial arts

[kiddbjj]

hey guys


i have been reading alot about politics and religion recently and i have come to the conclusion that much of what is being taught today in the name of martial arts is very similar to the dogmatic and close minded approach espoused by oppressive political regimes and some of the major religions.

i find it incredibly strange that something as straightforward as fighting has been totally morphed into something that, in many cases, has become completely removed from its original purpose.

so many tma's today spend vast amounts of time with ritual, routine and training methods that have little relationship with combat. yet these are the things that seem to entice a steady flow of people through the doors time and time again. for example, have you eve noticed the difference between the people at a karate/kung fu school and an mma gym. in my experience the people at the tma school are far more likely to accept the preachings of their sifu/sensei without question, than the guys and girls at the mma gym.

mma gyms by their very nature seem to be far more analytical and open minded in their pursuit of combat effectiveness, constantly testing and revising their technique and training. in other words: evolving. the modern mma gym, to me, is a living and breathing example of our treasured concepts of democracy, free speach, freedom of choice and discovery.

tma's on the other hand seem to embody the hallmarks of totalitarianism and/or dictatorship. they are stagnant and terrified of change. many of the teachers have no fighting experience, street/sport or otherwise, yet they pass on their knowledge with an air of authority based on the assumption that people in the past knew better and that tradition somehow supersedes experience. wing chun is a prime example. so many wing chin masters of this style argue about who knew the true secrets of yip man, and who inherited the real system, but when you think about it who gives a shit. all their argueing over special techniques and hidden movements in the forms mean little compared to the very real and tangible evidence that can be attained by sparring with many opponents as often as you can. yet so many of these guys prefer to hide behind inflated reputations and trickery.

the sad fact is that many people are overtly influenced by martial arts trickery and continue to keep the traditional guys in business because instead of seeking true combat effectiveness, they are actually searching for a sense of identity and self.

these are the people that when confronted by the evidence of mma fights/ufc etc that traditional styles are way behind mma in effectiveness, will often reply that the art they do (karate/kung fu/tkd etc) is about more than just fighting, as though that is a good reason for learning reverse punches and fighting with your hands by your hips. for some reason the tma's have become alternatives to religion as a means of accessing spirituality in todays society. the image of the lone warrior practicing kata on the beach as the sun sets, with oriental flute playing in the background has come to replace going to church or praying. not that that is necessarily bad but all you have done is traded one rigid cookie cutter framework for another.

the fact is that many people enjoy that illusion and how it makes them feel about themselves. much like people take comfort wearing a crucifix around their neck or having their wedding in a church. it gives them a sense of identity.

i guess my point in writing all this is that, although i respect peoples right to practice whatever they like, don't try to tell me that learning to fight and tma's are the same thing or even have much in common because they really don't. in my opinion true expression of one's spirit and identity comes through knowing oneself. knowing oneself comes from pushing your boundaries and confronting what you are afraid of. mma or any combat sport provides a perfect chance to do that. tma's can do that too, through rigourous training and discipline, but dont expect to learn to fight.

[Blue Wave Gym]

agree completely

[gregimotis]

My gym teaches mainly Muay Thai and Pekiti Tirsia Kali - two styles generally considered combat oriented.

We've got three guys who come in after hours and practice ieido - which is largely the art of drawing a samuri sword (not fighting with, drawing). I think these three know perfectly well that they aren't learning to fight in modern terms. Nor however, are they deluding themselves that they are.

Another example: At my gym we have an aikido instructor. One day a student from an MMA gym came to visit and saw Pascal teaching and openly smirked - then jokingly asked me "if I could take him". This persons assumption was similar to the implied assumption of your post - that TMA people don't know (or refuse to know) that their stuff doesn't hold up well in combat. Pascal trains or has trained Kali, BJJ, savate, and Aikido, and Muay Thai. I don't know if "I could take him" or not, but I'm pretty sure he'd give a cocky BJJ blue belt an unpleasant lesson in humility.




Anytime people get involved in their own 'thing' they tend to put on blinders and only see the one way. MMA is the best thing if MMA is your goal. If, however, 'street effectivness' is your goal, then a consealed carry permit or a blade is the best thing. If you goal is something to take your mind off your B.S. job, then the style that makes you smile is the best art for you, and it's effectiveness is irrelevant. If your fifty years old and your back is weak, BJJ IS NOT a good idea at all.


My point (in case nobody's picked it up yet):

While it's true what you've said about many arts being ineffective for combat, and it's also true that many practioners may not want to face that fact; It's further true that we don't all share the same goals, and we don't know each others backgrounds or reasoning.

I think the quote goes:


Talent in God given, be thankful. Fame is man given, be humble. Conceit is self given, be careful.

Dan Inosanto

[kiddbjj]

i agree with much of what you have said, especially the part about different people having different motivations for beginnng martial arts.

i guess my only grievance then is that many TMA's exploit the relative ignorance of newbies to MA by selling themselves as something that they are not.

I quick look through the yellow pages will show a multitude of ads claiming to teach 'real world fighting' only to be traditional aikido, kung fu, karate etc classes. the new student goes there genuinely believing he/she will be receiving what the ad has claimed. this is either blatant money grabbing or a case of the blind leading the blind.

as for carrying knives etc that you described, well thats a matter of personal choice, and also comes down to whether you have the conviction to actually use the weapon on another person if the sh*t hits the fan.

[gregimotis]

I quick look through the yellow pages will show a multitude of ads claiming to teach 'real world fighting' only to be traditional aikido, kung fu, karate etc classes. the new student goes there genuinely believing he/she will be receiving what the ad has claimed

It's surely true, and I think this is mainly what the original post was on about. Another example of this junk is Black Belt Magazine - written by people who should know better "Three unbeatable moves to defeat any attacker including bears, giants and orgres!!!111!!!" the cover claims every month.

[sanguinemote]

Fighting has always been fighting, and will always remain so. The purpose of traditional martial arts is to focus on the "Arts" aspect.

The primary focus is not to be able to beat someone up, but the unification of one's own mind and body. To sharpen reflex and reaction, strengthen the body, and quite the mind. With the ultimate goal of never having to fight.

All modern TMA's are said to be evolved from the kung fu introduced to China by the Indian Buddhist monk Bodhiharma. Who after arriving at the Shao-lin monastery found the monks there so physically out of shape that they were unable to follow their Buddhist practices. Bodhiharma introduced a set of yoga derived exercises to strengthen the monks. Yogic practices also being an excellent way to focus mind and develop single pointed concentration. The fighting styles that developed from this were eventually spread throughout Asia, primarily by Buddhist monks, and adapted by the cultures that encountered them to form the traditional styles that we see now.

Far from being useless, TRUE TMA'S WELL TAUGHT, are very effective for self defense as they teach strength, self confidence and most importantly, incident avoidance and peaceful conflict resolution. As in Tesshu's Sword of No-Sword school, true strength is shown by not having to draw your sword in the first place. They also do give practical techniques to deal with hostility if all other options are exhausted.

Your premise of fighting arts being subverted is backwards, with the real subversion being schools teaching violent arts to people who may lack the moral compass and judgement to be able to handle that sort of power. And instead of being closed minded and dogmatic true TMA's teach you to be far more open minded and accepting of all other people and their ways. To be confidant in your way, is to see truth in all ways.

[bunyip]

Matt Thornton, president of the Straight Blast Gym, has an excellent article on exactly this point:
Freedom from Cults

[Sensei Saki]

Where did Matt Thornton president of the Straight Blast Gym get an excellent article on exactly this pointFreedom from Cults?

[bunyip]

Also, for the ultimate in martial arts cults, check out the gym I visited in this (offsite) thread:

West Wind Karate / West Wind Bok Fu / West Wind Kung Fu thread
West Wind Karate / West Wind Bok Fu / West Wind Kung Fu archived version (fewer pages to click through)