Ultimate Fighter 2

[Sensei Saki]

Are all Martil arts still very heavily involved in the scoring seen?Are all Takedowns judged fairly he or she think without a doubt they are pretty cool to see but they are also one of the most important aspects of fighting?What makes you think I have your standup striking ground game grappling and the transition between the clinchtakedowns are the transition partpoint 13 of the fight seems like a pretty big factor into the judges score card for me?I get it. Krav Maga just builds on that and one the fight due to other things superior positioning for one.I won't say "yes" or "no" right now. I get it. Krav Maga just builds on that and got the mount and then the back and then the mount.It depends on what the meaning of the word "it" is.I am thinking about
this if your constantly working just to stay in the mount or on the guys back you do not have enough time to hit them or sub them
.I get it. Krav Maga just builds on that and got the win because he had the takedowns the superior positioning and he did attempt some submissions he also did throw strikes did you not see him knee melvins face into the cage.But not anymore?
Perhaps I misunderstood. What were you?What happened to it?
Interesting explanation.

[CLittle]

Also, the reason they pick them up so high when they take them down, is because it hurts more and stuns them more, who wants to do a leg tackle, when you can get a double leg slam, its far more painful, plus you end up in the side mount instead of the gaurd, are you sure youve been watching since UFC 1, I thought that stuff was pretty basic.

As I said, I didn't need/want to start a flame war so please stop with the "are you sure" commentary. I have and the game has changed alot since UFC 1 and not just with rules but judging overall has changed dramatically for the flare of the sport instead of the skill.

It wasn't until recently that people started doing these dramatic takedowns and I call them dramatic because if executed wrongly, someone's coming down with a chokehold on the person and I've watched several newcomers do the old Heave-Ho to take the person down and in the blink of an eye you see the same guy with a very redface being choked out. I've done wrestling for a few years and most experienced wrestlers can tell you it's more of an annoyance than actual pain. I've been slammed from that high several times and it barely affected me outside of the split second you regain your composure.

Problem therein is that you answered it yourself, the time/effort it takes to maintain a superior mounted position and thus Melvin was doing enough to make Josh do nothing more than try to maintain his position ... yet this scores nothing for Melvin? How do you figure? Josh does a takedown and then proceeds to lay on top of Melvin just to maintain his position, but does nothing more because of Melvin's guard defense ... yet during that scenario, the takedown and mounted position are the only things judged. Strange. Watching the President criticize Melvin for not following up after his kick to Josh... where's the criticism for Josh not doing anything or pushing the 'ground and pound' after gaining multiple full mounts on Melvin?

If you're going to have Mixed... Martial Arts, you can't judge solely based on the flare of the game and then ignore the defensive aspects of the martial arts. The game has changed alot since UFC 1 (which I've been watching since) where they never picked up the grapplers and let them fight it out (a la Oleg Taktarov, Ken Shamrock, Royce Gracie fights from UFC 1-5) to a point now where these fighters are training in BJJ and grappling styles in order to avoid Takedowns ... why? Because the UFC scores against the defense and more for the offense which should be wrong, but it sells. Who wants to watch two guys grapple for 45 minutes on the ground when they can have Chuck Liddell ... but that's Mixed Martial Arts, or is that MMA for TV.

You decide... but for me I think it's wrong that they ignore aspects such as defense and countermoves during a fight.

[Memnoch1207]

I have and the game has changed alot since UFC 1 and not just with rules but judging overall has changed dramatically for the flare of the sport instead of the skill.

It's had to change over time to account for safety and different weight classes...you can't expect to see a 170lb Royce Gracie vs a 450lb Akebono...it's just not a fair fight and Royce beat his ass.

The fights are more based on "All things being equal" weight, skill, etc...whose the better fighter.

I have to disagree on the "flare" part of it too...Look at UFC 53, when Nate Quarry fought Shonie Carter. Carter was all about flash and flare and showing off, but Nate just beat his ass and won the fight.

It's about winning, nothing more.

[SamuraiGuy]

Id like to think its about winning, but if it was about winning they would never have released Lindland.... hes been winning... but he gets released from the UFC for a gambling shirt....

Not that I care, I didnt really like him, and like Franklin better, but w/e.

As for this:

"I've done wrestling for a few years and most experienced wrestlers can tell you it's more of an annoyance than actual pain. I've been slammed from that high several times and it barely affected me outside of the split second you regain your composure."

In that split second they could have punched you in the face, and continue punching you in the face, slipped on a sub, or elbows, anything, switched positions.

Plus, slams do in fact cause a bit more than a minor annoyance, see Rampage slam on Arona, (KTFO), Hughes slam on newton (KTFO), Tito's slam on Tanner (KTFO) (even if it was aciddental headbutt). Also what about in Trigg vs Hughes 2, hughes ran across the octagon and slammed him, first to get him against the cage, and second, it stunned Trigg, and let hughes get the GNP in which led to his RNC.

Slams are effective, I've picked up a Canadian womens Jiu Jitsu champion who had a tight closed gaurd around me and slammed her until she softened up a bit.

Not my proudest moment but it worked, w/e passes I tried she could reverse so I slammed her for a bit lol.

BTW, I asked her if I could lift her up / slam before doing it and she said try whatever you want.

As for his decision win....

your right, Melvins defense was equal to josh offense while in the mount and back mount position. Heres the thing though, Josh got the points for getting into the mount, he had superior position, and when he didnt get anything, and Melvin didnt get anything, they were equal, but getting into the superior position put him ahead. The superior position, if they both dont do anything wins the fight.

When it comes to gaurd, you can argue about who has superior position, but can anyone honestly say they think they are winning the fight if they are mounted, or back mounted? Dont you think Melvin would have switched positions so he could have the mount if he could.

I wasnt sure aboutthe first round, I thought it was even, but Melvin definetly lost the second, and in the third he came out strong... probably even again.

[OmaPlata]

Josh didnt do shit, he sucks, he had the black guys back on a few occasions and didnt do anything to choke him out, like a rear naked choke, which looked wide open. He did enough to win since they had to give it to somebaody, but Im not impressed...still waiting to see Jorge fight, even though hes hurt

[OmaPlata]

-long as they are both great grapplers, not ground and pounders who lack submissions like Tito, I would rather watch that, I love position changes, submission attempts, chokes, etc....people who dont grapple hate it cuz they dont know what they are seeing... most of the time

[SamuraiGuy]

Josh looked for the RNC but couldnt get it , melvin did defend it with his hands, Im sure he could have got it if he worked a bit harder, or maybe got in a sneaky arm bar from the back... one of my favorite ways to get people.

I like all aspects of it, grappling, GNP, even the lay and pray... its free Mix martial arts... if you dont like it dont watch it... it is entertaining though, and that was a good fight... wouldnt you rather see a fight like that over Diego Sanchez throwing someone who shouldnt even be there onto the gorund, punching him and putting him in a RNC in about a minute.

Alot more interesting to me when they are more evenly matched and have to work for it.

[OmaPlata]

< wouldnt you rather see a fight like that over Diego Sanchez throwing someone who shouldnt even be there onto the gorund, punching him and putting him in a RNC in about a minute.>

-no, I would rather see the science of the art being expressed... as with Diego, as they say, thats poetry in motion

[Blue Wave Gym]

melvin is a loud mouth but his explosiveness was cool, too bad about breaking his hand the 3rd time, Shonie Carter is an asshole(I'll tell you about my run in with him some time) but he can still fight/is tough,
Nate quarrie's injury WAS 100% PREVENTABLE you NEVER HAVE MORE THAN 2 FIGHTERS WORKING IN A RING/cage AT THE SAME TIME IT'S TOO MUCH OF A RISK AND GUESS WHAT CAN HAPPEN, exactly what did, 2 guys in the ring, 2 guys could have been working the same shit on the mat at the same time and 2 guys could have been on equipment, nuff said, too bad about kerry's knee and george is truly a stud for competing as hurt as he is but I hope he doesn't damage his knee further and **** himself over in the end. BTW I wish sam would have pounded melvin LOL

[SamuraiGuy]

lol with quarry there were actually 3 pairs of fighters in the octagon at the same time...

[Blue Wave Gym]

Was randy thinking? I still respect the hell out of him though, we should all be so lucky to have a coach who's a class act like him.