Helio Gracie's Jiu-Jitsu

[shamster]

According to Helio Gracie, real Gracie Jiu-Jitsu is first and foremost a self-defense art, and that it's important to spend time learning the fundamental self-defense aspects of it first as a beginner. He also feels that most Jiu-Jitsu instruction today is not the real thing, as it is very tournament and sport oriented, and most of the stuff taught today would not help you in the real world.

How much truth do people here feel there is to this? Does learning Helio's self-defense program first make you a better bjj practicioner in the long run and enable you to survive in a real street encounter better?

[BoarSpear]

Originally Posted by shamster

According to Helio Gracie, real Gracie Jiu-Jitsu is first and foremost a self-defense art, and that it's important to spend time learning the fundamental self-defense aspects of it first as a beginner. He also feels that most Jiu-Jitsu instruction today is not the real thing, as it is very tournament and sport oriented, and most of the stuff taught today would not help you in the real world.

Helio said this? When? is there somewhere i can get this in context? I find this statement highly interesting...I want as many details as possible...Where can i acess the stuff he says you should do?

[shamster]

http://www.graciemag.com/?c=152&a=3020

Helio's also said on one of the videos that he thinks most bjj these days make no sense since it is so sport oriented.

[IPON]

What's interesting is that this is teh same argument against TMAs

[BoarSpear]

Originally Posted by shamster

http://www.graciemag.com/?c=152&a=3020

Helio's also said on one of the videos that he thinks most bjj these days make no sense since it is so sport oriented.

HOLY SH*T Helio has to be a pretty good man to admit all those things.

[tkd_person89]

Every MA is effective but everything has weaknesses, even Muay THai .

[JkD187]

Yep ive said that many times before....Acording to Helio if you cant escape a bouncers headlock you dont know GJJ!!

[OmaPlata]

Originally Posted by JkD187

Yep ive said that many times before....Acording to Helio if you cant escape a bouncers headlock you dont know GJJ!!

Very easy, one of the first things I learned..........now, if I only knew it in grade school it I coulda kicked some ass

Rickson says in part 2 of that article : Some people are born tough; they are fast, strong or have a good heart for fighting. These qualities alone represent 50% of a win in any street fight. But in adverse conditions, it is just not enough.”

[JkD187]

yep the escapes from headlocks and chokes have to some of the easiest techniques to pull off ive ever seen/done .

[pstevens]

Originally Posted by shamster

According to Helio Gracie, real Gracie Jiu-Jitsu is first and foremost a self-defense art, and that it's important to spend time learning the fundamental self-defense aspects of it first as a beginner. He also feels that most Jiu-Jitsu instruction today is not the real thing, as it is very tournament and sport oriented, and most of the stuff taught today would not help you in the real world.

How much truth do people here feel there is to this? Does learning Helio's self-defense program first make you a better bjj practicioner in the long run and enable you to survive in a real street encounter better?

Helio is correct in some regard, but even he is not seeing the entire puzzle. I do believe every BJJ player should know the self-defense aspect, but they should also stay current with regard to technques. Today everyone is adding judo, MT, boxing, wrestling, whereas Helio would have everyone “pass the guard” the way they did 20 years ago... Everything changes with time and innovation. I remember learning the “old” guard pass under the legs. I kept getting triangled... Then I read what Carlie Gracie said, that a student of Rolls learned the Triangle choke and made everyone pass the guard differently. Since then, I’ve abandoned some of the traditional Gracie stuff and tweaked the techniques that work for myself.

For one who was claiming to bring to the world an innovative new approach, Helio takes the old “karate” approach - everyone must do things in the same manner regardless of body type, strengths, weaknesses, age, etc...

Also, if every Brazilian Black Belt wasn’t always trying to market their “style,” I’d have an easier time understanding Helio’s point. Afterall, what’s the first thing that a BJJ Black Belt does - move to America, set up shop and proclaim your version of BJJ is the best.

[OmaPlata]

Originally Posted by pstevens

Also, if every Brazilian Black Belt wasn’t always trying to market their “style,” I’d have an easier time understanding Helio’s point. Afterall, what’s the first thing that a BJJ Black Belt does - move to America, set up shop and proclaim your version of BJJ is the best.

If they moved here from Brazil, its 95% for sure Gracie Jiu Jitsu. In fact, show me BJJ that isnt from the Gracie clan. I can only think of Marco Ruas's

[pstevens]

Originally Posted by OmaPlata

If they moved here from Brazil, its 95% for sure Gracie Jiu Jitsu. In fact, show me BJJ that isnt from the Gracie clan. I can only think of Marco Ruas's

Well sure, technically it's all Gracie Jiu-jitsu, even Ruas has trained Gracie jiu-jitsu according to some sources, but the thing is that people are constantly adding or changing techniques. In other words, jiu-jitsu has evolved outside of the Gracie family, just as GJJ evolved from a form of judo/JJJ. The thing is the Gracie feel a need to separate themselves from other BJJ stylists, even those who learned from them, hence we have GJJ and BJJ.

[danfaggella]

I also don't like the fact that guys get a Black belt and start telling proclaiming thier own "style" of BJJ is the greatest, I don't even like the fact that they name thier own styles. I think its best to have an open aproach and accept that training this before that or having such and such a philosophy in a fight is "best" isn't that same of everyone. Succesful students develope they don't necissarily copy, a good teacher of any martial art should let people open up and explore the knowledge of the teacher and body mechanics freely, so they can develope thier own "style" (not that they have to NAME it, but when people get the hang of things they develope a way of approaching things that is really thier own).

[JkD187]

Whats wrong with Gracie Jiu-Jitsu is whats wrong with most traditional martial arts.....big ego.GJJ is not evolving because they think their style is invincible.....well its not and because of that GJJ will wind up just like all the others.BJJ will continue to grow and evolve as long as people keep an open mind.