wheres the "soul" in combat sports

[Garland]

Originally Posted by cam427

Dude,

I have trained at the SBG (or with SBG instructors) and they do have the philosophy you are looking for. There are no arseholes because they are not tolerated. Everyone is looking to improve themselves in terms of performance and also as a person through pushing beyond the limits they believed they could achieve.

The gym founder has a degree in philosophy. Go look at the website and see if there is one near you (they are everywhere now). Try it out. You will not look back.

www.straightblastgym.com

Cam

SBG/Matt Thorton's guys are very respectable...because they bring to the table aspects of a fighters gym, and the stuff I dubbed niche market. (which essentially includes obscure and exotic arts, as well as those few MA/Combat Sports institutions that pride themselves on integrity.)

[Garland]

Originally Posted by Drag'n

kidbbjj,
I'm not saying all MMArtists are assholes or anything. But I also feel that there is a serious lack of character development in some of these kinds of schools.
I agree that its dangerous and irresponsible to go teaching any punk off the street dangerous fighting skills without first building their character and instilling a certain level of values and respect into them.People who teach MA souly for the purpose of making a buck are a disgrace, and a danger to our society. These kinds of clubs are putting dangerous thugs on the street with very lethal fighting skills.

So is my head in the clouds too?
Well I'd rather have it there, than in the trash.

Ok...Okay....
Define character. Most of the fighters I know have more integrity, fortitude, and heart than anyone I know. As for morality and ethics....ever heard of normative subjectivism? MMA guys are, as well as just about everyone on the planet save a minority of assholes, not thugs or hooligans.
To say somebody should be denied certain rights and privleges because they don't fit your ethical model is screwed up.

Secondly, people teaching MA soley to make a buck...that is they have no passion for it...are generally the types of overweight McDojo punks that couldn't hurt a fly. Lethal fighting skills? Gimme a break, kid! It's like those yellow bamboo bitches. Fucking freaks trying to re-enact Star Wars shit with sais and staffs and whatever the **** those silly cunts use.

and finally, no...
your head is up your ass, not in the clouds.

[eXcessiveForce]

Matt posts here on occasion.

[Tom Yum]

Originally Posted by eXcessiveForce

Matt posts here on occasion.

Matt Blake???

[eXcessiveForce]

thornton, smartmonkey

[kiddbjj]

garland, i dont think its a matter of expecting people to adhere to a certain code before teaching them, rather its a case of checking them out as people before you teach them potentially dangerous stuff.

as an example, if you had a teenage daughter wouldnt you want to meet, talk to and generally get a feel for the guy she is dating before you allow her to go out with him. that would be common sense to protect the interests of your daughter right? so shouldnt this apply to people teaching fighting (ie. ways of hurting, maiming, controlling and possibly killing someone).

i've heard that in some schools of bjj you will spend your first 6-12 months only doing positions, escapes and sweeps. no subs or strikes. i think this is great because it serves 2 purposes. one it tests the dedication of the person and shows if they are in it for the long haul and willing to earn the other techniques, and two it allows the instructor to get to know them as people and if they are going to fit in.

dont worry, my head isn't in the clouds and i understand the idea of keeping a business afloat.
i know one guy that runs a full time gym, and in my opinion there are people there that shouldn't be learning because of there attitudes but hey they help keep the place open for cool folk,
on the other hand i know another guy that teaches that just rents a floor space a few nights a week. when ego-brains go to his class he will eventually roll with them and apply some "attitude adjustment" ie. a bit of pain and plenty of exhaustion. they either quit because they're ego's get bruised, or they eat humble pie and come back with a better attitude. i've seen it plenty of times and it actually creates a great environment because you end up with students that look out for each other and nobody is trying to be a badass.

also i think if you've never trained at a place with "traditional/old school" values then you might not get what i mean. thats not a jibe at you or others but it may be a factor in understanding what i've been crapping on about

[Drag'n]

Originally Posted by Garland

Ok...Okay....
Define character. Most of the fighters I know have more integrity, fortitude, and heart than anyone I know. As for morality and ethics....ever heard of normative subjectivism? MMA guys are, as well as just about everyone on the planet save a minority of assholes, not thugs or hooligans.
To say somebody should be denied certain rights and privleges because they don't fit your ethical model is screwed up.

Secondly, people teaching MA soley to make a buck...that is they have no passion for it...are generally the types of overweight McDojo punks that couldn't hurt a fly. Lethal fighting skills? Gimme a break, kid! It's like those yellow bamboo bitches. Fucking freaks trying to re-enact Star Wars shit with sais and staffs and whatever the **** those silly cunts use.

and finally, no...
your head is up your ass, not in the clouds.

I'd agree that most of the experienced fighters I know have learned some humility and respect through their ring experiences. They're not the ones that bother me. Its the fact that some teachers just teach dangerous chokes and techs to just anybody off the street. You cant see the irresponsibility in that?
Its not a matter of screen testing students to fit your values,or denying anybody of their rights. Its just taking certain steps to instill a sense of responsibility and integrity into your students. Traditionally this was usually an important aspect of MA training. Its just good common sense really. Do you really want to turn rapists and thugs into skilled fighters? And encourage their already violent egos?

MA can serve a purpose in helping mixed up kids like you learn a bit of respect for themselves and others. Or it can turn them into a bigger menace to society.

It seems that you're just the kind of punk I'm refering to.

[GonzoStyles]

how can you practice an escape without practicing submission??

[cam427]

Originally Posted by jubaji

Oh, well he must be super deep then!

Hey, it's better than your Doctorate in sarcasm

[Drag'n]

Originally Posted by Garland

Lethal fighting skills? Gimme a break, kid! It's like those yellow bamboo bitches. Fucking freaks trying to re-enact Star Wars shit with sais and staffs and whatever the **** those silly cunts use.

Aah, you lost me on this part. So are you trying to say that you dont like people who practise kobudo?

[Tameo]

I was wondering if there is any difference at all even if small, between Gracie and Machado bjj?

[danfaggella]

Out of context, but no not really.

[Garland]

Originally Posted by Drag'n

Its just taking certain steps to instill a sense of responsibility and integrity into your students.

Do you really want to turn rapists and thugs into skilled fighters? And encourage their already violent egos?

It seems that you're just the kind of punk I'm refering to.

Hold the fucking phone. Did you just call ME a fucking punk?
Look in the mirror, you conceited, pretentious, self-righteous sack of shit. You have absolutely no credibility that would enable you to come in on a high horse and make value judgements about me, my constitution, no rmy character after listening to a few statements of mine over the internet.

AS I SAID EARLIER...rapists, and thugs, eh? They do not go out and learn fighting skills, they rely on their power to subjugate people that they believe to be weaker than themselves.

As for "checking" people out...no matter how well you get to know somebody initially, you have absolutely no ASSURANCE that they are, in fact, people who would go out and do bad shit.

My take on it is this...submissions are commonly known, everybody who had ever seen one on the UFC or elsewhere on tv can mimic them. Striking? Most people off the street that are fairly athletic and have a decent amount of strength and incentive to fight could probably kick the living shit out of most TMA guys.

Consider, thugs and ruffians, or whatever the **** you're reffering to, run in groups. They rely on sucker punching people, and then stomping them or using weapons.

rapists look for people they think they can exploit and overpower.

There is no need for training in an MA or combat sport to do those things, and most people so inclined to do those things do them with bravado and would mock people with formal training.

I know a few people that are gang members or essentially thugs and hooligans, and they aren't the type to go out and train, instead they'd rather get coked out or drunk and hit some unfortunate fool who crosses them or disrespects them in THEIR element.

Rapists are different. They are trash, and, luckily, they are uncommon. Date rapists, equally trash, are more common, and rely on drugging people or looking for the most inebriated person to victimize.


Why not teach people techniques that they can utilize against people that aim for these ends?
I'll tell you one certain thing, you couldn't tell if a person was a "bad guy" unless you caught them red handed...or they were indeed the sort that wasn't inclined to train.


As for techniques that are lethal...people scrap. Go out and find me twenty people who take a legitamtely dangerous art and are honest-to-goodness ruffians up to no good.
Do it.
20 out of however many thousands...


Punk...grab your ankles and pump that up your ass.

[kiddbjj]

"how can you practice an escape without practicing submission??"

positional escapes dude. ie. escape mount, escape side-control, pass guard etc

[jubaji]

Originally Posted by cam427

Hey, it's better than your Doctorate in sarcasm

Ok, that was pretty good.....