wheres the "soul" in combat sports

[kiddbjj]

hey all

just wanted to get some opinions. lately i've been lamenting the lack of "soul/spirit/philosophy/etc" that seems fairly non-existant in most combat sports schools, particularly mma.

i know that these systems are all about fighting but they seem to really only stress the technical and physical side to combat, which they excel at.

one exception i have noted is kyokushin karate, the so-called "strongest karate", which as well as developing very fit, tough and technical strikers also has an extremely strong undercurrent of philosophical values. they use the vehicle of full contact sparring (albeit with no punches to the face) as a means of overcoming fear and developing a greater sense of self esteem and self awareness. many kyokushin fighters have gone on to win the K-1 events so they are legit fighters.

i guess im saying this because im having trouble finding a school that unites solid fighting technique with the "right" atmosphere and environment for training. i do bjj and have dabbled in mma and kickboxing but even though these schools have excellent physical technique they seem to be full of rednecks and ego-monsters that are only training to learn how to beat people up. in other words they are not there for any form of self improvement
beyond the physical and technical realm. i want my study to be a life enriching pastime, not just something to break up the week instead of going to the gym. i guess i want an art that i can participate in for life.

basically i believe it comes down to the atmosphere that the instructor sets down for the school. when basketball coach phil jackson lead the chicago bulls you could say that he taught bball beyond the physical realm of the game, which explains why he was able to get so much out the players that weren't stars like jordan and pippen. what im saying here is that the "right spirit" in training is not limited to tma's or exclusive to martial arts. i've also heard from reliable sources that ajarn chai sirisuite the renowned thai boxing coach is very strict with his classes so it is certainly possible to have a great atmosphere in the combat sports.


what do you guys think? is there something out there that fills this niche? what are your experiences?

please note im not referring to things like calling techniques by their japanese names or calling someone sensei or bowing etc. rather i mean setting the right kind of atmosphere for developing yourself as a whole. let me give an example... showing weakness. in a class with the right "spirit" students would be encouraged to maintain composure and not fall in a heap/swear/run for a drink/ after doing an exhausting round on the pads. yet in many schools i see people do just this. they are not encouraged to show spirit and persevere through the hardship of training.
imagine doing that in the army where you ARE training for war. the drill sergeant would be all over you "like a leach at a tampon party". you get the idea.

anyway thats my rant. im just sick of training with wankers and am trying to recapture the spirit i used to experience when i did kung fu. i cant go back there though cause i just cant do anymore bloody forms and air punching.

here is a link to an interesting page that adds to my point...
http://www.masutatsuoyama.com/dojoetiquette.htm

[LoneHusky]

mma guys have souls.

[danfaggella]

KidBJJ, I have never read something I enjoyed so much on this site.

I feel exactly the same, I am ashamed to be training with these angry, tatooed, "fighters" who just want to get strong and "be tough."

I love grappling and I love martial arts, and I wanted to be technical and be proud of myself and my art. I wanted to learn more form the art than how to "kick ass", it was a passion that I planned on being proud of.

Now when someone brings up the fact that I do BJJ people are like "yeah cool, just like the UFC". This makes me kinda sad, and it also makes me really want to instil some value and humility in the people I teach grappling.

[jubaji]

Originally Posted by danfaggella

This makes me kinda sad, and it also makes me really want to instil some value and humility in the people I teach grappling.

"teach"?

[danfaggella]

There is a club at URI, we get new people grappling with us all the time, I teach them at the club.

[blitz]

Go to a good school then.
Not all schools have these so called red necks who only want to beat up people. Why the hell do you care anyway? You can still have "etiquette" and train in martial arts. Who you train with dosen't matter and wont make you a different person.

[danfaggella]

Teachers make a big difference in thier students, and although I certainly wont end up being a 35-year-old bouncer who smokes cigarettes and parties all the time like my BJJ teacher, I'd like the establishment to have some class. Mat is a good guy and he has really settled down a bit since he opened this establishment, and hes a very good grappler and kickboxer, but I kinda feel like im the only one without a tatoo and a history of domestic/alcohol abuse.

there really aren't any "good schools" anywhere within an hour of my home. The one that is in providence is a bit "nicer" i guess you coul say, but it is still filled with a bunch of "mma dudes" and not martial artists.

[medic06]

You don't have to look any further than these forums to see that the majority of trolls claim MMA and BJJ as what they train.

[danfaggella]

That doesn't bother me so much, though it does put a mark on the dignity of the Brazilian Jujutsu man. I'm more concerned with who is filling these BJJ establishments and who is teaching them, and HOW they are teaching them.

[jubaji]

Originally Posted by danfaggella

There is a club at URI, we get new people grappling with us all the time, I teach them at the club.

Didn't you turn up here less than a year ago saying "I want to learn how to grapple"? Now you're teaching?

[LoneHusky]

Originally Posted by danfaggella

KidBJJ, I have never read something I enjoyed so much on this site.

I feel exactly the same, I am ashamed to be training with these angry, tatooed, "fighters" who just want to get strong and "be tough."

I love grappling and I love martial arts, and I wanted to be technical and be proud of myself and my art. I wanted to learn more form the art than how to "kick ass", it was a passion that I planned on being proud of.

Now when someone brings up the fact that I do BJJ people are like "yeah cool, just like the UFC". This makes me kinda sad, and it also makes me really want to instil some value and humility in the people I teach grappling.

You're lucky, most people I know don't have a clue what BJJ is.

[muaythaiguy15]

Wow...Get out of crappy dieseled cage fighting biker dudes idea. Most MMA guys have a lot of heart and values. Look at Franklin, Couture, Gomi.

You just hang around the wrong people. Thai boxing is a lot like stand up street fighting but there is so much honor and respect in that.

[EmptyneSs]

Originally Posted by danfaggella

There is a club at URI, we get new people grappling with us all the time, I teach them at the club.

how much are your private lessons?

[danfaggella]

Hah, there are none, there is just a club that does "MMA" and when the other Dan isn't there (blue belt) I teach the peoplegrappling, because the majority of them are meatheads who are completely uncoordinated and goofy. Not to mention they have only been doing grappling for a year or so, and though I havent been around it for long, its basically what I do with my time. Its not like I have to be a 2nd degree black belt to teach some gaurd sweeps and details about the triangle choke, its just basic kinda stuff so that we can roll around and have fun.

And yeah, maybe this MMA group is just a rough crowd, but I see plenty of "fresh-outa-prison" looking fighters even at the highest level of competition. granded some of them are more than thugs and fighters, but a lot of them are just that.

[EmptyneSs]

Originally Posted by danfaggella

Hah, there are none, there is just a club that does "MMA" and when the other Dan isn't there (blue belt) I teach the peoplegrappling, because the majority of them are meatheads who are completely uncoordinated and goofy. Not to mention they have only been doing grappling for a year or so, and though I havent been around it for long, its basically what I do with my time. Its not like I have to be a 2nd degree black belt to teach some gaurd sweeps and details about the triangle choke, its just basic kinda stuff so that we can roll around and have fun.

And yeah, maybe this MMA group is just a rough crowd, but I see plenty of "fresh-outa-prison" looking fighters even at the highest level of competition. granded some of them are more than thugs and fighters, but a lot of them are just that.

u sound like a nice guy who is genuinly interested in martial arts and training, and its cool that you want to help others learn, however there really should be someone with more experience teaching and supervising.

also, could it be that you are jumping to conclusions with many of these people? mabye they look tough or mean, but you dont really know if thats the case. i remember you mentioned one of the reasons you didnt like chuck lidell was because of his mohawk. i mean, if you are judging people just on their appearances and base alot of your judgements on meaningless physical attributes like haircuts and tattoos, then you are generalizing and overlooking many kind hearted people. looks can be deceiving.