Street-effective grappling

[danfaggella]

Unlike in grappling tournaments, in "real life" fights occur on hard surfaces and anything goes. I have to say that the closest I have ever been to a fight is sparring in kung fu. We don't have gloves or mats or anything, and we spar outside (as of now the ground is still frozen in rhode island). Durring my sparring, I have realized first that a wrestler's shot is much harder when your on a hard surface, and I haven't even thought about playing the gaurd game because the kung fu guys would likely maul me or inform me that they could easily have pummeled my groin. I have only had success with upper-body takedowns (clinch to back trip, arm-drag). The good news is that every time I've take the fight to the ground it has abruptly ended (God bless the concept of "Phases of Combat"). My submissions include two strait armbars and two RNCs.

What do you guys think about different techniques and submissions translating to actual fighting, what seems to be best in your oppinions?

[MT&BJJ@noob]

I will vote Judo

[aseepish]

Yep. The kind of grappling where the other person goes to the ground and you don't.

For me the words "actual combat" and "grappling" (by which I imagine you mean ground-fighting) conjure up the phrase "absolute last resort".

I've rolled on concrete before. It wasn't a problem when I was doing it, but the next day my back was one big contusion.

[jeff5]

I've thought about this quite a bit myself. I think lots of the things we do in the gym prepare us well for what we would want to do in a real altercation. But obviously its not the same thing. The main differences as I see them are:

-Rules. There are none in a real altercation

-Striking, gouging, biting, etc. Obviously most of us don't do this stuff when we are training, but we should be prepared to do, and to counter it, in a real fight

-Environment. I know we've gone back in forth on this forum about the effects (or not) of environemnt, but its something you do have to take into account

-Multiple oppnents. In a real altercation you have to be aware that there MAY be other opponents waiting to jump in

What I try to do is mentally train myself to take these things into consideration while training in grappling. I also try to focus on some areas that I think can prepare me well.

-Position. Of course we all focus on position when we train in the gym. First and foremost I want to be the one who does the take down, or throw, so I'm in the best place to get good position. My goal is for my opponent to be on the ground, and me not to be, and to be in a position of control. Obviously it will not always work out this way. So the way I try to train it is that, even if I get taken down, I want to roll to a position where I can get up, strike, gouge, bite etc, and have at least some perception of my surroundings and who/what is near me. (and the ability to do something about it)

-No matter what position I'm in, I try to keep in mind where I could hit, gouge, press, etc. my opponent, if allowed. Obviously we don't do this in training, but mentally I try to go through it

-Ending it. I try to think about how it would end if it were for real. In a real altercation, someone probalby won't know to tap. So I try to visualize that when I have them in a position of great pain, or passing out if its a choke, that's when I would start talking and end the fight. Meaning at this point I'm talking to this person "are we going to stop or am going to break your arm/tear your head off?", or getting them to calm down etc. (last resort would be to knock them out and/or break/injure a limb)

That's my take for what its worth.

[danfaggella]

Thats good stuff. I think the same way a lot of times. Being a small guy I end up on my back in gaurd ALL THE DAMN TIME and though in grappling matches I am good in this position and I might even be able to catch someone with a submission durring kung fu sparring from my gaurd, I don't want to get too used to it because it is much more oriented twards 1v1 sport fighting. Adding in multiple attackers, concrete, and a guy who will elbow you in the groin a million times and the gaurd doesn't seem extreemly logical in the street, though it is useful and a very origional grappling concept.

I try to take people's backs ASAP when grappling, beause no matter what the rules are, if have someones back there is little they can do to prevent a flurry of elbows or a rear naked choke, and in the street I could easily gauge until the cows came home.

I am also looking into getting good at Chin Na, in which i can use my grappling skill without necissarily going to the ground and limiting my mobility. I could also aply chin na to BJJ, which I look forward to.

[muaythaiguy15]

Wow...

In street situations I usually just go for the groin or throat. End quick. No point in grappling a guy with a knife or a group of people.

[danfaggella]

Well its my forte and in kungfu they are far superior strikers than I am, as of now anyways. I think that if I was in the street and me and another guy both wanted to kill each other, we would both have equal chances of hitting each other in the groin or eye or something, the guy would likely have an advantage in doing so, since he would likely be bigger and stronger, and my striking isn't fantastic. However, once I clinch up I pretty certain that I'm going to smash him ontot he ground, and when we get there, I'll have better POSITION to do those dirty attacks, and be able to exicute my strong suit, submissions.