Lost depth.

[Richard Kerr]

Many of the traditional martial arts have been groomed into commercial sports today and thus lost their true meaning and depth in many ways.

This is sad really but it is the way things go when they become a commercial buisness sometimes unfortunately. The two that spring to mind most of all are Karate and Tae kwon doe as much has been removed and lost in many schools now a days in order to make a sports style that is health and safety friendly.

This is understandable now, but by doing so the essence of the Art has been lost and quite often the very core, foundation and spirit is lost through this type of corruption.

Sadly like all buisness's money is more important than tradition therefore we must accept that this is the way of the world unfortunately. I suppose people nowadays have less belief in the spiritual side of things, and lower pain thresh holds or something.

The one thing I do know is that if you practice sports fighting it doesn't prepare you very well for real street defence unless it is a full contact fighting sport obviously. I just feel sorry for alot of keen, honest and loyal students that truly are not getting their moneys worth from their teacher.

[Troll Virus]

Originally Posted by Richard Kerr

Many of the traditional martial arts have been groomed into commercial sports today and thus lost their true meaning and depth in many ways.

This is sad really but it is the way things go when they become a commercial buisness sometimes unfortunately. The two that spring to mind most of all are Karate and Tae kwon doe as much has been removed and lost in many schools now a days in order to make a sports style that is health and safety friendly.

This is understandable now, but by doing so the essence of the Art has been lost and quite often the very core, foundation and spirit is lost through this type of corruption..

Not lost.
Just harder to find.

The one thing I do know is that if you practice sports fighting it doesn't prepare you very well for real street defence unless it is a full contact fighting sport obviously. I just feel sorry for alot of keen, honest and loyal students that truly are not getting their moneys worth from their teacher.

It depends what you are looking for.
Sport is just that. Sport.
It's not intended to develop fighting skill primarily.
Some people enjoy it though. It's their choice.
But yeah, delusions come with commercial marketing.
All of a sudden a pair of jeans can double in price because they have a particular label on them.
Way of the world.
I find it most productive to make sure I am training what I want, rather than worrying about what everyone else is doing.

[nutter]

Originally Posted by Troll Virus

Sport is just that. Sport.

I disagree mate, sport orientated martial arts can have many facets and there is usually much more to it than just sport int there. Look at boxing or MMA, the self-discipline needed right is awesome. The standards of the sport dictate the commitment right, commitment to training harder, longer and higher intensity right. The resilience to pain, setback and disappointment. Those things carry over into everyday life and can make you a better person right. Perhaps not that sissy points tag sport stuff mind.

Originally Posted by Troll Virus

It's not intended to develop fighting skill primarily.

That’s not right is it mate. You cannot say boxing isn’t about fighting with a straight face can you. Might not be exactly like a real fight on the streets right but it is definitely a fight of sorts.

[Troll Virus]

Originally Posted by nutter

I disagree mate, sport orientated martial arts can have many facets and there is usually much more to it than just sport int there. Look at boxing or MMA, the self-discipline needed right is awesome. The standards of the sport dictate the commitment right, commitment to training harder, longer and higher intensity right. The resilience to pain, setback and disappointment. Those things carry over into everyday life and can make you a better person right. Perhaps not that sissy points tag sport stuff mind.

So you are saying some sports help you fight, and others don't?

That’s not right is it mate. You cannot say boxing isn’t about fighting with a straight face can you. Might not be exactly like a real fight on the streets right but it is definitely a fight of sorts.

You think so?

[nutter]

Originally Posted by Troll Virus

So you are saying some sports help you fight, and others don't?

Pretty much. Curling is crap training for fighting I hear. In terms of combat sports I guess it's more a case of some are closer to the real thing than others right. Like MMA is much more like a real fight than semi-contact point karate innit.

Originally Posted by Troll Virus

You think so?

Clearly I think so mate else I wouldn't have writ it right. Are you gonna do that thing where you just ask questions in a condecending manner right instead of explaining your own viewpoint mate?

[Troll Virus]

Originally Posted by nutter

Pretty much. Curling is crap training for fighting I hear. In terms of combat sports I guess it's more a case of some are closer to the real thing than others right. Like MMA is much more like a real fight than semi-contact point karate innit.

"Much more like" eh?

Clearly I think so mate else I wouldn't have writ it right. Are you gonna do that thing where you just ask questions in a condecending manner right instead of explaining your own viewpoint mate?

Nope, I can't be bothered with you.
You're not interested in anyone's viewpoint, unless it fires off some trivial cyclic arguement. Innit

[nutter]

Originally Posted by Troll Virus

"Much more like" eh?

Yeah, much more like. I ain't saying it's the same, but it is much more like it int it.

Originally Posted by Troll Virus

Nope, I can't be bothered with you.
You're not interested in anyone's viewpoint, unless it fires off some trivial cyclic arguement. Innit

You resorting to put downs and insults already mate, not like you to throw your toys out of the pram mate.

[Troll Virus]

ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz...Yawn!

[nutter]

So are you agreeing or disagreeing with my points right? If you are agreeing, then why post irrelevant crap and pointless questions in order to derail the thread right, and if you are disagreeing at least have the courtesy to post meaningful counter arguments right.

[Miss Teak]

Originally Posted by Richard Kerr

Sadly like all buisness's money is more important than tradition therefore we must accept that this is the way of the world unfortunately. I suppose people nowadays have less belief in the spiritual side of things, and lower pain thresh holds or something.

Personally, I hate tradition almost as much as I hate spirituality. When I'm looking for a martial art, if I even smell a hint of tradition/spirituality in the mix I head screaming for the door. I've decided against training at some schools (even ones that I knew were really, really good) just because I felt confined by hidebound viewpoints. I'm sure it all has it's place, or it would'nt exist, but I just don't get it.

[Garland]

Originally Posted by Richard Kerr

Many of the traditional martial arts have been groomed into commercial sports today and thus lost their true meaning and depth in many ways.

This is sad really but it is the way things go when they become a commercial buisness sometimes unfortunately. The two that spring to mind most of all are Karate and Tae kwon doe as much has been removed and lost in many schools now a days in order to make a sports style that is health and safety friendly.

This is understandable now, but by doing so the essence of the Art has been lost and quite often the very core, foundation and spirit is lost through this type of corruption.

Sadly like all buisness's money is more important than tradition therefore we must accept that this is the way of the world unfortunately. I suppose people nowadays have less belief in the spiritual side of things, and lower pain thresh holds or something.

The one thing I do know is that if you practice sports fighting it doesn't prepare you very well for real street defence unless it is a full contact fighting sport obviously. I just feel sorry for alot of keen, honest and loyal students that truly are not getting their moneys worth from their teacher.

Buddy...I would point out that this has been said repeatedly over these forums, but...you've already posted this shit twice, so you'd know that.
I was going to let it slide the first time, but since you dragged this thing out more than once, I want to point out a bold ass contradiction between your viewpoints here on pain, self-defense oriented martial art, and the posts you placed in another thread AGAINST martial arts as a mechanism of killing.

Martial (military) arts...what is the military for....???



Killing. martial arts were devised to kill. True they have taken on a spiritual meaning as they age, yada yada yada...we've said all this before, so CAN WE PLEASE, PLEASE move on to something more constructive. (when I start saying that, you know this thread has got to be bad.)

[Richard Kerr]

Originally Posted by nutter

I disagree mate, sport orientated martial arts can have many facets and there is usually much more to it than just sport int there. Look at boxing or MMA, the self-discipline needed right is awesome. The standards of the sport dictate the commitment right, commitment to training harder, longer and higher intensity right. The resilience to pain, setback and disappointment. Those things carry over into everyday life and can make you a better person right. Perhaps not that sissy points tag sport stuff mind.

That’s not right is it mate. You cannot say boxing isn’t about fighting with a straight face can you. Might not be exactly like a real fight on the streets right but it is definitely a fight of sorts.

Sorry a boxer is only dangerous on the street if he sucker punches you, you let him punch you,you can't kick,or you can't take the boxer to the ground and pound them. The most stupid thing you can do with a man or woman that loves to punch people is exchange punches with them.

[J-Luck]

Originally Posted by Richard Kerr

Sorry a boxer is only dangerous on the street if he sucker punches you, you let him punch you,you can't kick,or you can't take the boxer to the ground and pound them. The most stupid thing you can do with a man or woman that loves to punch people is exchange punches with them.

????? Punching encompasses a great deal of stand up fighting... boxing is very dangerous, not as dangerous as say... mma? And it's not complete, but still dangerous.

[Richard Kerr]

Originally Posted by J-Luck

????? Punching encompasses a great deal of stand up fighting... boxing is very dangerous, not as dangerous as say... mma? And it's not complete, but still dangerous.

You idiot so is a gun. But that gun doesn't make you a well rounded street fighter does it? If your a professional boxer your not going to do well in a street fight unless your opponent is stupid enough to box with you. Punching isn't boxing, punching is punching. Punching can be anything, boxing is that sport where a man or a woman puts big gloves on, gets into a ring and tries to give their opponent brain damage before they get it.

[Tom Yum]

Originally Posted by Richard Kerr

You idiot so is a gun. But that doesn't make you a good street fighter does it. If your a professional boxer your not going to do well in a street fight unless your opponent is stupid enough to box with you. Punching isn't boxing, punching is punching. Punching can be anything, boxing is that sport where a man or a woman gets into a ring and tries to give their opponent brain damage before they get it.

Hi Richard,

I'd say that your description of boxing is a little off. Boxing is the art of punching while minimizing the change of getting punched.

Boxers will do more than punch in a street fight; They will headbut, elbow, stomp, arm wrench and punch below the belt.