question on tyson, and fighting

[lei_kung]

Tyson when challanged by RG he was well out of his prime. To use that as an example is completely misplaced.

Lei Kung

[rev.jc]

dude kimo in no way shape or form could come close to hitting as hard as tyson, tyson (I know I said it before) broke mitch greens Jaw with an open hand, you need to watch some of Tysons fight, he also never fought anyone as fast, if kimo could hit as hard, don't you think he would be going for the multi-million $$$ payday, and as far as the gracie challenge thing lets face it to some one of Tysons caliber gracie was somewhat of a no-name, same with Frazier.
secondly look at the build of Tyson during his prime, all mucle no fat, the early UFC guys were not built like Tyson, not even Shamrock who probably had the best conditioning came close toTYson when he fought Spinks or Marvis Frazier or Tillis!
Until recently and the onset of Dana White, the UFC was like a glorified tough man, and while it has its downfalls boxing enjoyed a position of prominence in sports.

That would be like Micheal Jordan and the Bulls during the championship years accepting a game from some local playgound team, not in the bussiness interst.
of the 3rd highest paid athlete in the world during his prime!

[sapatiero]

Originally Posted by J-Luck

If they were challenged... I'm sure they didn't accpet... makes sense.

Money... wayyyyy off... plus, what were the rules... the stipulation?? This all needs to be exposed before we make a decision.

Not sure about the money, but the rules were... very few. No eye gouging or biting, and gloves being optional. In other words, the same setup as Rorions original UFC. We shouldn't let this thread evolve into just another 'my art beats your art', so let's consider the facts.

There are 3 fighting distances - kicking punching & grappling. At kicking range, a kick boxer would've beaten Tyson. At punching range, Tyson would slaughter most of todays MMAers, at grappling range any half decent grappler would have Tyson tapping in 1 round.

So... If Tyson could master a really good takedown defense/sprawl, and defend against kicks, he'd make a great MMA fighter. Otherwise, he's likely to get owned.

For those who think that punching on its own is enough, just check google video or youtube before you make your mind up, todays MMA'ers are all rounders. BJJ is my bag, but I recognise it's weaknesses - shootfighting is one of the only arts that actually combine all 3 distances in a practical way in my humble opinion.

[OmaPlata]

Originally Posted by rev.jc

dude kimo in no way shape or form could come close to hitting as hard as tyson, tyson (I know I said it before) broke mitch greens Jaw with an open hand, you need to watch some of Tysons fight, he also never fought anyone as fast, if kimo could hit as hard, don't you think he would be going for the multi-million $$$ payday, and as far as the gracie challenge thing lets face it to some one of Tysons caliber gracie was somewhat of a no-name, same with Frazier.
secondly look at the build of Tyson during his prime, all mucle no fat, the early UFC guys were not built like Tyson, not even Shamrock who probably had the best conditioning came close toTYson when he fought Spinks or Marvis Frazier or Tillis!
Until recently and the onset of Dana White, the UFC was like a glorified tough man, and while it has its downfalls boxing enjoyed a position of prominence in sports.

That would be like Micheal Jordan and the Bulls during the championship years accepting a game from some local playgound team, not in the bussiness interst.
of the 3rd highest paid athlete in the world during his prime!

Rev dont get me wrong, in my opinion the Mike Tyson that walked the planet during the years 1986-1988 was the GREATEST Heavyweight fighter of all time. He would have KILLED ALI or anyone else during those years and with his trainers, he was unbeatable. Period. THe night he KOd MIke Spinks was the prime of prime Tysons, that night no one in the history of boxing would have stood a chance against that fighter.
But in MMA, whoever he faught would know Mikes KO poser and stay away and then close the distance and take him down,easily, he had no ground skill.....though there were no rules excpet biting and eye guaging, so it woulda been interesting to see what Mike did before he got his arm snapped

[Mikeb85]

Originally Posted by OmaPlata

Rev dont get me wrong, in my opinion the Mike Tyson that walked the planet during the years 1986-1988 was the GREATEST Heavyweight fighter of all time. He would have KILLED ALI or anyone else during those years and with his trainers, he was unbeatable. Period. THe night he KOd MIke Spinks was the prime of prime Tysons, that night no one in the history of boxing would have stood a chance against that fighter.
But in MMA, whoever he faught would know Mikes KO poser and stay away and then close the distance and take him down,easily, he had no ground skill.....though there were no rules excpet biting and eye guaging, so it woulda been interesting to see what Mike did before he got his arm snapped

How do we know Tyson had no ground skills? Just because he's a boxer doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't have other skills. From what I know about the guy he was a troubled kid, probably had plenty of experience streetfighting. The fighters in the early UFCs were all CHUMPS, not saying it was rigged by the Gracies but the fighters were all selected so that Royce could win.

[Reala]

People with big body masses usually do awful in UFC, remember Rich Franklin's fight in the last UFC against the Crow... do your remember those two big, big guys? who went 3 rounds and throw about 4 punches and where getting the life boo'ed out of them? I imagine Tyson would have been very, very simular =/

plenty of experience streetfighting

How far did people who reckon'ed they were "Street Fighters" get in TUF? They didn't... they fall flat because the ground game is so important in UFC. Streetfighters usually rely on agression alone and have little technique or focus in the ring... Tyson didn't have the right temperment.

Just for refference I think your real question should be 'How would Muhammad Alido in the UFC' much fitter, much more focused, and had a much better frame/mind to work with for Jujizu or Kickboxing skills =)

He did have a kind of MMA fight as well... although it was more wrestling and the other guy was limited to what he could actually do

[sapatiero]

Originally Posted by Mikeb85

The fighters in the early UFCs were all CHUMPS, not saying it was rigged by the Gracies but the fighters were all selected so that Royce could win.

There's always someone who wants to make an off topic dumbass point...

[Reala]

The fighters in the early UFCs were all CHUMPS, not saying it was rigged by the Gracies but the fighters were all selected so that Royce could win.

Obviously you have never watched him or his opponents then... =(

[JkD187]

Tyson in his prime was an excellent fighter....however he would walk right into a grapplers territory which is the clinch...in the old ufc shamrock and severn would have taken him down and submitted him....Royce would have a very hard time taking down Tyson because Royce's takedowns sucks and tyson was a big guy...but eventully Royce would win.

[J-Luck]

Originally Posted by Dumbass racist

Yes, Tyson would have evolved like Shamrock(not a good fighter) and other mma pioneers. He probably would have been the best mma fighter up until his age got to him, which was a while ago. But Tyson would have never done MMA because he was getting paid so much more Boxing.

Of course Shamrock is a good fighter...dumbass.

[J-Luck]

Originally Posted by HOMO

Royce took down guys that were WAY stronger than Mike, including a roided 260lb Kimo and Severn a monster wrestler, and the list goes on, all went down, all tapped. all of them, Mike would have had 1-100 chance to win a fight back then with any BJJ black belt, let alone Royce.
Like I said, give Mike 6 solid years or so of BJJ and mix in 3 or so of Muay Thai back then, and you have the baddest human being ever to fight. But in reality, a purple belt would tap him out, even a college wrestler would spank him, lest he land a blow

Way stronger, but more powerful... not at all lol. Being powerful(having a more complete control and practical use of strength) is differnt of jsut strength.

Severn wasn't stronger... outa shape... outa his prime... stop using him as an example.(besides the fact that Royce just about lost to both of them before barely pulling of subs on them).

The problem is getting him to the ground, on top of being a boxer he was a street fighter(in juvie at age 10). I mean, this is one bad dude... he wouldn't be easy to handle on the ground... much less easy to take down...

[J-Luck]

Originally Posted by HOMO

Helio challened J-Luck, J-luck declined.....Rickson challenged Boarspear, Boar ran for momma.....Rickson challegned me and I tapped him out, but his record is still 445949-0? what gives?

J-Luck challenged HOMO... HOMO backed out and said,"STOP TAKING THINGS SO SERIOUS!". Lol, STFU.

[J-Luck]

Originally Posted by sapatiero

Not sure about the money, but the rules were... very few. No eye gouging or biting, and gloves being optional. In other words, the same setup as Rorions original UFC. We shouldn't let this thread evolve into just another 'my art beats your art', so let's consider the facts.

There are 3 fighting distances - kicking punching & grappling. At kicking range, a kick boxer would've beaten Tyson. At punching range, Tyson would slaughter most of todays MMAers, at grappling range any half decent grappler would have Tyson tapping in 1 round.

So... If Tyson could master a really good takedown defense/sprawl, and defend against kicks, he'd make a great MMA fighter. Otherwise, he's likely to get owned.

For those who think that punching on its own is enough, just check google video or youtube before you make your mind up, todays MMA'ers are all rounders. BJJ is my bag, but I recognise it's weaknesses - shootfighting is one of the only arts that actually combine all 3 distances in a practical way in my humble opinion.

4 ranges... long(kicks), med(punches, some kicks), close/clinch(elbows,knees,punches, grappling), and ground(G&P, subs).

Tyson would dominate med and clinch badly... the only one Royce could win is ground... if he could somehow get tyson there.

No MMAer could beat tyson at the med level, ever.

At clinch, some could weather him to get him to another range, but most could not.

Kicking range he would likely close too quickly renderring it ineffective.

Ground he would lose. Period.

All he'd really need is a sprawl and he'd do really well... I agree... give em 5 years BJJ and wrestling in his prime and he'd kill any man in MMA.

[J-Luck]

Originally Posted by Reala

People with big body masses usually do awful in UFC, remember Rich Franklin's fight in the last UFC against the Crow... do your remember those two big, big guys? who went 3 rounds and throw about 4 punches and where getting the life boo'ed out of them? I imagine Tyson would have been very, very simular =/



How far did people who reckon'ed they were "Street Fighters" get in TUF? They didn't... they fall flat because the ground game is so important in UFC. Streetfighters usually rely on agression alone and have little technique or focus in the ring... Tyson didn't have the right temperment.

Just for refference I think your real question should be 'How would Muhammad Alido in the UFC' much fitter, much more focused, and had a much better frame/mind to work with for Jujizu or Kickboxing skills =)

He did have a kind of MMA fight as well... although it was more wrestling and the other guy was limited to what he could actually do

Lol Tyson had just as much of a mind as did Ali. He did become an amazing boxer back in the day. When his trainer was alive and he was focused... physically he could do any type of sport.

And he wasn't a big mass like other fighters were, he was a well endowed athlete with as much speed as he had power.

[sapatiero]

Originally Posted by J-Luck

4 ranges... long(kicks), med(punches, some kicks), close/clinch(elbows,knees,punches, grappling), and ground(G&P, subs).

3 DISTANCES - clinching on the feet is the same DISTANCE as on the ground, and involves similar elbows etc. And no, Tyson would not dominate, however good his 'dirty boxing' was.

Clinching in MMA - elbows, takedowns, knees, establishing underhooks etc.

Clinching in boxing - ummm... Earbiting?

Let's stick to the facts, and not make this a 'yes he is, no he isn't' type thread, please girls...