how to escape with hands pinned

[treelizard]

Originally Posted by TangSooDoGirl

Yeah, I just simply need to work on ground work a lot.... never really done any ground work training.

Me too, I'm a newbie. But I love it!!! It's really great if you can find an MMA or BJJ training group with good guys that you feel comfortable with, and ask some of 'em, "Hey, will you help me test out what I learned in a women's self-defense seminar to see if it works on someone who actually knows what they're doing?" They'll usually teach you something that works better if it doesn't.

[TangSooDoGirl]

The only training school in my area is too expensive right now for us. So my parents are making me wait untill I get my grades up. In other words probably once I get my report card. But I know they'll help me out with it. I personaly know 2 of the insruters and 1 of the students who's a black belt. There's a place here in town that trains, I've heard it's an ok place to train but I'd rather go to the school. It's supposedly the best in Michigan if not one of the best in the us. Proffessinal Karate Schools of America, ran by Master Collins I believe founded by Grand Master C.S Kim.... Not too sure though. I should know I just did a paper on it in school. Wow.

[AshleyGH]

if you have you hands pinned from someone who has mount why waste your energy when you know that they have to either remove a hand or change position control to do something. If you keep your arms close to your body you're going to get your arm 1) stuck behind your back 2) in a key lock or 3) in an omoplata. Especially if the person has weight or strength on you. Fighting them will waste energy, go with them. Take your time and if they release one wrist move fast for a kimura or crab out from their mount.

[lei_kung]

I'm assuming that your hands pinned by the wrists with a grip (rather then just weight) about waist area (but not fulsh against you) and in your guard.

If he is putting his weight forward to apply weight to keep your wrists pinned, try aching your back and lifting your hips (note you should be in open guard). You are trying to make a bit of space and force some of his weight off of your wrists. Then drop your hips and slide to one side. Which ever side you are sliding to you should be lifting that shoulder off the ground. While you are doing this you will want to twist your wrist so the thumb side is pushing on his thumb's part of the grip and pulling it up and away from him.

This should break you free, but you've also put yourself into a position to attack. From there you quickly sit up, swinging your now freed arm over his head, around the back of his shoulder, and attempt to lock it to your wrist. He will be in a position where he will need to let go of your other wrist. So you must quickly turn the still trapped wrist (not sure what else to call it) so that you are grabbing his wrist. From there it is a standard submission.

Lei Kung

[rev.jc]

Back to wrestling again, but if you have made it strong a kneck bridge will reverse this quite nicely! (not to get on the Matt Hughes band wagon)

[Penance]

Bridge and roll (upa) and he'll have to post out and/or take pressure off your other hand.

Or do a foot lift or foot drag. You don't need you hands for those moves.

Basically just move around. Lots of hip bumps, etc to get them off balance so they have to let go to keep from losing the position.

[treelizard]

Originally Posted by TangSooDoGirl

The only training school in my area is too expensive right now for us.

Where in MI are you? There's a really good shootfighting school in Clinton Township (shootfighting is a combo of Muay Thai kickboxing and submission grappling)...send me a PM.

[treelizard]

One of my friends sent me this like ten-paragraph response to this that was truly enlightening, and I am checking to see if he'd let me forward, but he talked about how you have a flat base and low center of gravity and your opponent in that position has to pay attention to their balance, and their arms are unavailable, so you'd want to use a takedown/reversal theory that would disrupt their center of gravity. Wrap your legs around their torso, push them with your leg and pull on their arm/wrist and they will likely release so they can post to regain balance. Pull on your wrist while pushing with their leg. Practice constantly keeping them off balance by pushing/pulling and scissoring your legs, practice pressurein different directions while pulling on their arms, play with it and see what works and what doesn't.

He said it was important to upset their balance because otherwise they will probably start punching you or setting up an arm or shoulder lock when they let go of your wrists.

[Garland]

well...can they strike you if both of their hands are holding yours down??? Why worry about it...wait until they loosen let go, and beat the shit out of them...or, wriggle free to upa (if they're in full mount), or wriggle free to triangle or kimura, americana (if you've pulled guard)...whatever.

or...lean in and start tearing chunks out of any soft flesh you can wrap your teeth around....

[blitz]

Well you can try lifting your wrists just a little so he won't be balanced then just bump him to the other side. But I don't really see anything good from getting your wrists pinned, especially if its with both hands since he can't do anything to you and you can't do anything to him :P

[OmaPlata]

Originally Posted by Mephariel

Has anyone ever sucessfully escape from a full mount in a professional fight? I heard a lot of theories on how to do it, but I never saw it before.

Lots of guys arch and escape "out the back door" meaning you slide under the opponent and come out the back, at one point your face with be in the opponents genital area briefly, but wrestlers love this move for this reason.
another way is simply to do the basic trapping of the arm and leg and arch, "UMPA" the person off

[treelizard]

I'm posting my friend's responses in e-mails to me. I cut out my responses to his responses so if it doesn't make sense it's all my fault. Also he runs this badass kickboxing website: www.axkickboxing.com so check it out.
===========
One of the biggest keys to grappling from your back
(especially against a bigger person) is that they MUST
pay attention to their base (balance) in their
position. You, on the other hand, do not, because you
are on your back. You have a completely flat base and
your center of gravity is as low as it can get (unless
you learn a technique for sinking into the ground). If
their arms are controlling your arms, that means that
their arms are not available to maintain their base.

Have you ever heard of "posting"? It's a term used in
wrestling a lot. It is when you are trying to maintain
your balance (on your hands and knees, for example)
and you put your hand on the ground away from your
body to keep yourself from falling over in that
direction. Your arm would be a "post", just like the
legs of a table.

If you are on your hands and knees, your right arm
would keep you from falling foward or to the right, or
anywhere in between (diagonally). On a clock dial,
your right arm would maintain balance for 12:00 to
3:00. Your legs would keep you from falling backward
(from 3:00 to 9:00) and your left hand would keep you
from falling to the left or forward (9:00 to 12:00)

If you start to understand the theory of "posting" and
how that keeps people from falling over when they are
pushed off balance, then you can understand how to
"attack a post". Attacking a post is a method for
taking someone down or keeping them down.

Here is another example of "posting". Step 1 -Lay on
your back. Step 2, begin to get up to your feet. Now,
what is the first thing that you instinctively do in
order to get up. It probably involved putting your
hand or your elbow on the ground somewhere. That is an
example of "posting". In this case it is "posting to
get up". You "posted" on the ground somewhere in
order to establish a base. There are certainly ways to
get up without posting, but everyone posts because it
is natural and effective to do so.

A lot of takedowns or reversals occur when someone's
center of gravity travels over one of their posts. The
result is that they fall down.

So, you can use the same takedown theory when someone
is pinning your wrist down while you are on your back.
In this position (I'm assuming that you have them in
your guard?) Your strongest muscles (leg muscles) are
wrapped around their torso. When I'm caught in this
scenario with a stronger grappler, I basically try to
throw them around with my legs as best I can. At the
same time, I pretend that their hold on my wrist is
actually me holding their wrist, because, effectively,
it similar. They only difference is, they can let go
because they are the one doing the holding. That is OK
with me if they let go of my wrist. pushing them with
my legs while pulling on their arm/wriest upsets their
balance and gets them to release my wrist so they can
post their hand down to regain their balance.

It doesn't have to be a huge dramatic move to be
effective. All it takes is a well-timed "nudge".
Oftentimes, they will lean too much in one direction
without realizing it. Just pull on your wrist (which
pulls on their arm...since they are holding yours)
while pushing with your legs.

Off-balancing is a huge key to fighting from your
back. It is a good thing to practice. You have to
constantly keep them off balance by pushing, pulling
and scissoring your legs. Apply pressure in different
directions to their torso with your legs, while
pulling on their arms. Just experiment with it and
you'll begin to learn what works and what doesn't. If
you don't try to off-balance them, then they don't
have to be concerned about maintaining their balance.
They are certainly not going to fall over on their
own. You have to upset their balance. Otherwise, they
have the freedom of attacking you with their hands
(either with punches or grabbing your wrists or
setting up an arm or shoulder lock).

And yeah, a lot of people use strength when grappling.
In fact, I would go so far as saying that everyone
(including girls) use strength when grappling. My take
is that "leverage" is simply an efficient application
of strength, but it still requires some degree of
strength. I mean, your body still requires muscles to
move. The ideal thing (for you and me) is to learn
technique so there is less reliance upon strength to
get things accomplished.

If someone is using a lot of strength against you,
that is often a good thing for you...and it's a bad
thing for them. They won't likely get any better, but
you will have the opportunity to deal with a more
realworld scenario. I mean, do you want to know how to
fight off a guy who is trying to beat you with their
strength? Well, there is your opportunity.

As long as you don't get injured and don't get
discouraged, then you will benefit from it.

Me, I've gotten injured a lot from grappling with
dudes who rely on strength a lot. I did learn a lot
though. I learned the theory that I described above
(off balancing from your back).

It is pretty amazing to control someone with your legs
who is stronger than you while you watch them do
predictable things. (no no...I'm not talking about sex!)

Brian

There is an important difference between being mounted
and having someone in your guard. In either position,
the top person needs to be concerned about maintaining
their base and not being reversed. However, when you
are mounted, the top person also needs to be concerned
about you getting your half-guard or guard back, which
results in them losing their mount position. So they
have two things to be concerned about when they are
mounting you.

All bucking by itself does (when you are mounted) is
cause them to post their hands on the mat. It is
useful for when someone is trying to punch you while
mounting you. Bucking by itself won't work to get you
out of the position, but it can work in combination
with other moves to eventually get to that goal.

There are a couple of things that I tend to use when I
am mounted.

The first one takes flexibility, but it works well. I
take my right foot and grab it with my right hand.
While my right hand is grabbing my right foot, I pull
my foot up around their body to their stomach. I put
my right elbow down to where it is touching my own
stomach (on the inside of the opponents left thigh).
This helps maintain the position so they can't just
push your foot away easily. I then use both my my left
hand and my right leg to push their torso away from
me. This creates space for my left leg to get out from
under them. I pull my left leg out and position my
left knee on their stomach, which further establishes
space between our torsos. Now I am in position to
attack the opponent's left leg. Or I can work to get
my right leg out and get full guard again.

Two - With my left leg flat on the ground, I take my
right foot and place it down on the mat on the other
side of my left leg (like I am crossing my legs). I
use my right foot to hook underneath the opponent's
right ankle. If there is no space there for my foot,
then I push and buck and do whatever to the opponent
to create space there for my foot to sneak underneath.
Eventually, I will get my right foot under their
ankle.

I then bend my left knee so that my left leg is ready
to push off the ground. With my right foot hooking
their ankle, and my left leg ready to push off the
ground, I use that to lift their right leg up enough
for me to get my left leg out. Then I have half-guard.
Or I can create space to get one of my knees between
their legs to their hips and then their stomach and
eventually get full guard. If I am really good, then I
can get a reversal by blocking the opponent's left arm
(post) with one of my hands while I lift their right
leg with my right foot, pushing off the ground using
my left leg. That takes some leg strength though and I
have to time it right when they are already moving
their weight in that direction (toward their left post).