Wrestler Advantages Over BJJ?

[Motion]

What advantages have you observed that wrestlers have had in comparison to BJJ stylist?

Before wrestlers became skilled with submissions,we all knew that the BJJ stylist had the advantages of submissions skills over wrestlers. But are their areas where you've seen wrestling skills to be more useful even today?

When I say wrestling I'am referring to the various styles in general.

[OmaPlata]

take downs is the only thing they wrestlers have an advantage at, they practice those more, but dumb as they are, they fall right into a BJJ guys guard and get tapped usually pretty quick. we.ve had countless wrestlers come in, put on those funny ear cover things they always carry around, and get tapped everytime within minutes. thye have good base, but not much else. ITs a good start though to be familair with rolling around if ur a wrestler and go into BJJ. I did get submitted once by a wrestler who caught me in a gullitine a long time ago, that was the first and last time, they ALL go for that move Ive noticed, maybe they teach that in high school wrestling. Another advantage wrestlers have is those funny nutt hugging ballirena type tights they wear, its a good advantage is u want your balls crushed and u want to look flaming gay. awesome outfits with those funny ear things, it just kills me lol

[rev.jc]

Wrestlers are almost always in better shape, stronger, faster thier footwork is better as well! I find bjj guys get freaked out more by punches and are alot less likely to come out of a lock up well, wrestlers also spawl better. the problemb is sometimes they get to agressive!

BJJ does not rule mma anymore though! everyone thinks every submission is a BJJ move, they are many wrestling moves that can be just slightly altered into submissions.

BJJ guys are good with armbars, kimoras, ect. however wrestlers usally are better with chokes, they are just slight variations and thier strength and tequnique traning is almost (i said almost) always more intensive, or at least they practice more. A high school wrestler practices about 2 1/2 hours a day 6 days a week for at least 4 months of the year, couple this with summer workouts i.e freestyle & Greco 2 days a week for about 6 months out of the year
and you get a pretty intensive athlete with great muscle memory!

I belive it was Dan Gable who said "you must drill a move 20,000 times for it to be muscle memory!

[grappler-jordan]

Mmmm, it is hard to generalize because every person is different, every school is different. The BJJ I learn at my school constantly drills takedowns, takedown defense (i.e. sprawling, counters) etc. so you may or may not have that "given" advantage.

To assume any of those advantages always be true is dangerous though. I would not say that wrestlers are ALWAYS in better shape by any means. I have several guys who started at my school who wrestle and I easily out last them through 5 minute rounds. Some of that has to do with practice, relaxation, technique, breathing, but overall I think my conditioning is easily par with theirs.

This is just from personal experience and not a "fact" or a "constant" by any means, I find that BJJ guys tend to be more technical about submissions and hip placement specifically (but necessarily better at them). Alot of wrestling guys will try to power through a move instead of understanding the mechanical advantage, getting proper hip position and using it. That may be just because of my instructors emphasis on those topics, or the guys that I have rolled with but from my experience those are lessons I learned. Another lesson is that almost every wrestler I have rolled with (in my weight class) has had more explosive strength then me, when used properly this can be an advantage as well.

So in the end I will get off my soap box and give some generalizations. All in all I think wrestlers (unless the BJJ guy has worked others skills to cover this lack of knowledge i.e. Judo, Wrestling) are more comfortable on their feet, have better takedowns and more power.

[jubaji]

Originally Posted by hOmoPlata

take downs is the only thing they wrestlers have an advantage at, they practice those more, but dumb as they are, they fall right into a BJJ guys guard and get tapped usually pretty quick. we.ve had countless wrestlers come in, put on those funny ear cover things they always carry around, and get tapped everytime within minutes. thye have good base, but not much else. ITs a good start though to be familair with rolling around if ur a wrestler and go into BJJ. I did get submitted once by a wrestler who caught me in a gullitine a long time ago, that was the first and last time, they ALL go for that move Ive noticed, maybe they teach that in high school wrestling. Another advantage wrestlers have is those funny nutt hugging ballirena type tights they wear, its a good advantage is u want your balls crushed and u want to look flaming gay. awesome outfits with those funny ear things, it just kills me lol

Careful Homoplata, your insecurities are showing again...

[traveller]

Oma, you really don't like wrestlers do you?

[OmaPlata]

Originally Posted by traveller

Oma, you really don't like wrestlers do you?

just stirring u guys up

[OmaPlata]

Originally Posted by rev.jc

BJJ guys are good with armbars, kimoras, ect. however wrestlers usally are better with chokes, they are just slight variations and thier strength !

I would disagree with this, since theres so many chokes wrestlers dont even know, let alone know how to escape from them. Only choke Ive ever seen a wrestler do is a guillitine. I guess they have that anacoda too. But BJJ has the forearm, the RNC, one arm choke, several chokes from the guard w/out the GI not and including triangles. (Add the GI and there isnt even remotley a contest about the number of chokes, but we wont do that)

[Motion]

The thing I see with wrestling is that it just has to be modified as far as adding strikes and submissions.

I'd say that most advanced high school wrestlers like most advanced BJJ stylist could easily handle a Karate practictioner with ease once the fight hits the ground.

[howulikemenow]

we have a high school wrestler at our school. he is only about 120lbs, but once he gets ahold of you though you are as good as down. he is also very explosive. i have also noticed that he learns how to do bjj quickly. in my very limited opinion i think someone with a wrestling base is better suited to do mma.

[bigboywasim]

I have done and still do both. This is the way I see it, if you compare an all out fight with strikes between a pure BJJ guy and wrestler with the same weight and about the same years of practice. If they understand at least a little about the other style then my money is on the wrestler. Why I say this? I believe that generally wrestlers are stronger than BJJ guys and better conditioned. If the wrestler avoided being taken down I think he could fight his way out of it. BJJ is almost useless if the fight does not go to the ground.

However if both fighters are clueless about each others styles I think the BJJ guy will win. The BJJ guy is just better on the ground and has so many ground weapons. If the fight does not include strikes then I give it to the BJJ guy as well. In a pure grappling match the BJJ guy would rip the wrestler apart.

[OmaPlata]

Originally Posted by bigboywasim

In a pure grappling match the BJJ guy would rip the wrestler apart.

In most any matches. MMA especially

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

In MMA, wrestlers(which are usually at the college level, sometimes olympic) will always control whether the fight goes to the ground or not. Since wrestlers specialize in takedowns/throws and stand up grappling, they can either take anyone down quickly or defend any takedowns to keep the fight standing.

Most of the fighters in MMA, who claim "Wrestling" as their style, have been wrestling since a very young age. (Examples: Sherk, Hughes, Hendo, Couture, etc.) These fighters who have a deep base in wrestling, will be very good at striking and ground fighting as well...

A fighter who has been training in wrestling their whole life, will ofcoarse be very strong, quick, explosive, good cardio, dextrous, etc. This will allow them to become a better stand up striker than someone who's base is in BJJ, or even Kickboxing, since the wrestler CAN defend takedowns against other good grapplers.

For fighting on the ground, a wrestler in MMA, who is ofcoarse cross trained in BJJ, will actually be able to take fighters down at will and work from there. Look, at the Gracies, excellent at BJJ, but they cant take any of their opponents down(most of the time), without buttscooting towards them, hoping that they'll lie down right into their guard.

Alot of the time, a wrestler will take his opponents down directly into sidecontrol! Or sometimes get his opponent's BACK while standing up! The ability to grapple as good on your feet as you do on the ground is better than just knowing BJJ.

Also, wrestlers(cross trained in BJJ, all of them are) are the best ground and pounders too. Theyre also great at passing the guard and controlling fighters from sidecontrol and mount from which they submit them with strikes, keylocks or chokes usually.

Another thing is, that if a wrestler(not just a pure wrestler but BJJer too) is put in an inferior position(since another wrestling-specialized-grappler put them there by a sweep, takedown,etc), they can reverse it pretty quickly so that theyre now on top or on their feet.

In pure sub grappling though, BJJ is IMO more important than Wrestling, which will help big time no doubt. So to settle this Wrestling vs. BJJ argument(thats kind of what it is), how about this...Wrestling, who's catagories are Freestyle, Greco, Sambo, Judo, is just as important as Jiu Jitsu. Primarily, Wrestling is for stand up, and Jiu Jitsu is for the ground. Ofcoarse, both can be used wherever. But train in both......but the thing is, with wrestling, you have to start early so you can be on the same level as other wrestlers. Same thing could go with BJJ, except most dont start it until theyre older.




This is an example of how Wrestling can beat BJJ:

[Shoot]

First, in practice it seems that on average wrestlers train their attributes more and are in better physical shape..stronger, faster, better base.

The difference besides the rules is hard versus soft style. Wrestling is a hard grappling style in the sense that wrestling advocates overpowering and dominating the oponent. BJJ is a soft style in the sense that it uses the "go with" principle, the principle of yeilding and leverage to use the oponent's strength against them. In practice, they both utilize hard and soft, but the emphasis is different.

[EmptyneSs]

its true that wrestlers are stronger and faster usually. its usually mandatory for most wrestlers to lift weights like 4-5 times a week, while it is not for jiu jitsu practioners. wrestlers are much more explosive.