BJJ in comparison to JJ

[jorickdd]

Whats the key difference in this?

I train MMA/Kickboxing on tuesdays and thursdays but there happens to be a Jui Jitsu class on wednesdays and fridays. Do you guys think it is worth doing this or could I better be spending my time sparring to a boxing bag/rope skipping?

[sapatiero]

This is quite a common question, and there's plenty of previous chat about it on the forum (there was a really good discussion ages ago but I guessed it's been archived). In a nutshell, they are very different. BJJ is more practical & is 90% groundwork. JJJ includes elements of judo, aikido & karate as well as kata & weapons etc. I did JJJ for 6 years before BJJ and IMO it's a lot less practical, and the 'realistic' element of it is only a small percentage of the total syllabus because there's so much to cover. It sounds like the traditional side of things isn't particularly your bag, so I'd say give it a miss or ask if you can watch a class.

Here's a thread for reference.

Questions about BJJ & JJ

[jorickdd]

thanks for the helpful reference . A shame BJJ isn't being taught in my neighboorhood and afaik most other styles can't match BJJ either.

[grappler-jordan]

There might be a BJJ class somewhere within a reasonable range, have you looked for anything outside your current school? Where are you located? There might be someone here familiar with the area that can point you in the right direction.

[jivetkr]

I took JJJ for a few months & found it very annoying.

I dont think wrist locks work in the real world & katas are a waste of time.

[jorickdd]

Originally Posted by grappler-jordan

There might be a BJJ class somewhere within a reasonable range, have you looked for anything outside your current school? Where are you located? There might be someone here familiar with the area that can point you in the right direction.

I live in Holland.. I already looked on the internet, but most schools are located more then 100km away from me.
Next year when I go to university in a bigger city I will change to a more professional muay thai school with probably BJJ under the same roof.

[Kirves]

JJJ includes elements of judo, aikido & karate as well as kata & weapons etc.

Hmmm... Couple of details:

JJJ has got nothing at all to do with karate. Karate was born on Okinawa and was brought onto mainland Japan only about a century ago. Jujutsu was born during several centuries, developed by the samurai warriors on mainland Japan.

Judo and Aikido have got more in common with JJJ than karate, but the other way round, they were born from JJJ (judo from several styles, aikido from daito ryu aiki jujutsu only).

Weapons were truely a big part of JJJ, the samurai fought with the sword first and unarmed only if no other means was available, so any traditional JJJ or as they themselves call them koryu JJ styles will teach the samurai sword, as well as fighting with sticks, spears and knives.

Kata is also an integral part of JJJ, as you said. But many people confuse the term kata with karate. The kind of kata used in karate, solo forms that is, are not part of traditional JJJ curriculums. JJJ katas are always short two man sets. Many people do similar sets when they study self defence techniques in modern styles like krav maga etc.

Other than those little details I wanted to enhance, I found your post very informative and to the point! It takes a certain kind of "history buff" to get interested into traditional JJJ. BJJ on the other hand is a modern sport-oriented sweat-all-you can fighting art comprised almost entirely of unarmed ground fighting.

[repete]

Personally, I think some kind of "kata" would be highly useful in BJJ, especially for beginners, to help reinforce and memorize the basic submissions and positions.

[grappler-jordan]

Originally Posted by repete

Personally, I think some kind of "kata" would be highly useful in BJJ, especially for beginners, to help reinforce and memorize the basic submissions and positions.

You do em everyday in class, there called warmups and drills

[sapatiero]

Originally Posted by Kirves

Hmmm... Couple of details:

JJJ has got nothing at all to do with karate. Karate was born on Okinawa and was brought onto mainland Japan only about a century ago. Jujutsu was born during several centuries, developed by the samurai warriors on mainland Japan..

I disagree. My JJJ Soke was Fumon Tanaka (pictured below) - a modern day samarai, with authentic lineage. I was taught that Karate/Aikido/Judo all stemmed from the original mother art. Tanaka would even teach us some of the original throws that were used on the battle field (all of which were designed to break an opponents neck like the ogoshi executed back-to-back, although this could never be practiced properly for obvious reasons!).

Perhaps all sensei's are biased towards their art, but I know Tanaka is authentic, and trusted his teachings.

Originally Posted by Kirves

Weapons were truely a big part of JJJ, the samurai fought with the sword first and unarmed only if no other means was available, so any traditional JJJ or as they themselves call them koryu JJ styles will teach the samurai sword, as well as fighting with sticks, spears and knives.

Agreed. You're talking about the Tanjo, Bocan, Tanto and Katana - which were all part of the syllabus.

Originally Posted by Kirves

Kata is also an integral part of JJJ, as you said. But many people confuse the term kata with karate. The kind of kata used in karate, solo forms that is, are not part of traditional JJJ curriculums. JJJ katas are always short two man sets. Many people do similar sets when they study self defence techniques in modern styles like krav maga etc.

I'm not confusing karate with kata. We did solo kata, with & without weapons. Sometimes the instructor would 'attack' us through each move to validate the kata, but otherwise they were solo.

Originally Posted by Kirves

Other than those little details I wanted to enhance, I found your post very informative and to the point! It takes a certain kind of "history buff" to get interested into traditional JJJ. BJJ on the other hand is a modern sport-oriented sweat-all-you can fighting art comprised almost entirely of unarmed ground fighting.

Thank you. I realise that because of the 'handed down' nature of JJJ, we all get differing opinions from our sensei's. I always considered my lineage to be authentic, and believed that what I was learning was the real thing. We may have to agree to disagree...

[Mr. Miyagi]

There is a wide range in JJ training.
Some schools are good with hard training and effective techniques.
Others are McDojo crap. There is nothing to regulate this art.
I went to a school once to observe a class and it was complete crap. The door was locked so I rang the bell and a fat, out of shape guy, in a brown belt, answered the door. I went in and saw so many people of varying ages, little kids, college age kids, even some senior citizens, all in one class. Many of the little kids were wearing advanced belts. The warmups were a joke, bare minimum for an elemntary phys-ed class. They learned a couple techniques, which were all a joke. And then they did a very cooperative type of sparring, one would play bad guy and the other was the good guy. Stupid.
In the past, a lot of guys respond with "yeah, but at my school...." No matter what, BJJ is way better for conditioning, strength, and self-defense. Even though you don't train striking in BJJ, I'd rather get hit by one of the wimps I saw at the McDojo than by one of the tough guys I train BJJ with. If you want to learn striking, take boxing or kickboxing, or something where you spar for real and work with timing, cardio, and technique. Guys at BJJ schools and good boxing gyms tend to be tough, in good shape, and committed to realistic training. Most others live in a fantasy world, where they think that what they're learning makes them difficult to attack and that their advanced belt qualifies them to be capable in a live self defense situation.
I'm sure good training in JJJ exists in the states, but at least 95% of schools are bs.

[sapatiero]

I agree 100%. For realism, BJJ is definitely the way to go. I don't miss JJJ for a second.

[jubaji]

Originally Posted by sapatiero

My JJJ Soke was Fumon Tanaka (pictured below) - a modern day samarai...

Oh, brother.............again................

[sapatiero]

But he was... Honest... Google him...

(But seriously, I'm glad to have left the traditional stuff behind)

[jubaji]

Originally Posted by sapatiero

But he was... Honest... Google him...

No, he wasn't. Unless he was well over a hundred years old, he wasn't.