Sparring or mugging?

GrendelX · 10-01-2006, 09:23 PM

Sometimes in class with the newer guys its hard tell the "sparring" isent a friggen mugging... Is this a good way to train? Sometimes I just dont feel like having to fight for my life eveytime I hit the matt.. What do you guys think, does it turn out this way where you train sometimes?

WildWest. · 10-01-2006, 11:00 PM

New people shouldn't be humiliated or have their confidence crushed when starting sparring. They should be eased into it until they become confident with their techniques and can apply them under more and more pressure.

There are some idiots who have been training for a while, in my experience those with an intermediate level of training, who have grasped some good techniques, can't do so well against the more senior students so take out their aggressiveness on the new guys/gals. They need to be reprimanded or put in their place as soon as possible otherwise they scare people off coming back.

3mptin3ss · 10-01-2006, 11:27 PM

we all die eventually, so it doesnt even really matter.

Kenny Chance · 10-02-2006, 12:16 AM

thats actually waht I expected coming into class the first time, being as small as I am I thought the older students and bigger guys would completly dominate me but what Ive found is that when they get an advantage on me, such as passing guard and getting side control, they would stop, go back to guard and show me how to prevent what they just did. or if i would get an advantage theyd tell me where i should go from there and how to capitalize. it was a much better way to learn than to just make me tap over and over, and honestly, the amount of help i recieved from other students is one of the reasons i ended up liking the school so much

aseepish · 10-02-2006, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrendelX

Sometimes I just dont feel like having to fight for my life eveytime I hit the matt.. What do you guys think, does it turn out this way where you train sometimes?

Having to fight for your life EVERYTIME you hit the mat isn't good. But having to do it once in a while is good for the soul, regardless of one's level. I may be paraphrasing Matt Hughes, but one of the reasons why he was able to beat Royce was that Matt was training with people who were better than he was (and thus able to punish him when he made a mistake), while Royce wasn't.

Your first six months of BJJ shouldn't be a terrible ordeal, but it shouldn't be a cakewalk either. This is the time when you "pay your dues", and learn from making mistakes. That said, you should actually be learning. After someone completely dominates you, ask them questions: "Show me that choke!" "What's a good way to escape from that position?" "What did I do wrong?"

And in the end, if it isn't fun, there's something wrong.

[Edit: I'm going through the same thing in my Judo class with stand-up randori - all of the people in my relative weight class are either brown or black belts, and if you think a blue belt in BJJ translates into real skill in throwing techniques, take a Judo class and find out! I hold my own in the newaza department though. Judo black belts don't like getting caught in a white belt's clock choke

(although they usually make him pay for it when it's time for standing randori

)]

osopardo · 10-02-2006, 05:29 AM

The other side of that coin is "n00bs wit atttitude". These guys come in for the first time thinking they have to prove something. Sparring with them can get downright dangerous. Usually when that happens, two or more of the advanced students will have a talk with the new guy and explain to him how most of us have jobs, school and other important things to do tomorrow and we cannot afford the risk of getting hurt. If that doesn't work, we start yelling at him during sparring to ease up, loud enough for everyone to hear. Hopefully embarrass him into easing up. And if that doesn't work, he's probably never going to change the attitude and he's asked to leave.

Our last one like that was this really nice friendly guy; air force reserve, EMT, young, fit, strong. Very inexperienced. He just didn't seem to know how to hold back. The worst part was he also had his wife there, training with us. We wound up having to take turns kicking his butt with more advanced techniques until we wore him down. It was humiliating and grueling and he even lost some time off from work and training because of sore ribs, sprained muscles, etc. Totally unnecessary.

GrendelX · 10-02-2006, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by osopardo

The other side of that coin is "n00bs wit atttitude". These guys come in for the first time thinking they have to prove something. Sparring with them can get downright dangerous. Usually when that happens, two or more of the advanced students will have a talk with the new guy and explain to him how most of us have jobs, school and other important things to do tomorrow and we cannot afford the risk of getting hurt. If that doesn't work, we start yelling at him during sparring to ease up, loud enough for everyone to hear. Hopefully embarrass him into easing up. And if that doesn't work, he's probably never going to change the attitude and he's asked to leave.

Our last one like that was this really nice friendly guy; air force reserve, EMT, young, fit, strong. Very inexperienced. He just didn't seem to know how to hold back. The worst part was he also had his wife there, training with us. We wound up having to take turns kicking his butt with more advanced techniques until we wore him down. It was humiliating and grueling and he even lost some time off from work and training because of sore ribs, sprained muscles, etc. Totally unnecessary.

LOL Love that dancing bear osopardo. It seems like the guys I have the most trouble with in class are those at my skill level
(About three months of training) Most of these fellas were either in the marines or in the army so I think they have that win or die mentallity... Rolling with the higher ranked guys is always easyer because they are relaxed and find a way to submit me.... The guys at my level just try and maul me and its hard to learn much that way.

OmaPlata · 10-03-2006, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3mptin3ss

we all die eventually, so it doesnt even really matter.

so send me all your money u dont need it ur going to die, thanks homie

OmaPlata · 10-03-2006, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrendelX

LOL Love that dancing bear osopardo. It seems like the guys I have the most trouble with in class are those at my skill level
(About three months of training) Most of these fellas were either in the marines or in the army so I think they have that win or die mentallity... Rolling with the higher ranked guys is always easyer because they are relaxed and find a way to submit me.... The guys at my level just try and maul me and its hard to learn much that way.

yep ive rolled countless times with marines and military guys who come in and are by all means very strong guys. they go nuts and try to slam, hold, etc and then u tap them out and humiate them, but also they are impressed and want to learn. other times, i swear it, the want to start hailing down punches and hold back

Penance · 10-05-2006, 09:28 AM

I hate guys that slam.

I don't ever give them shit about it, but I definitely remember who has slammed me, how many times, and how hard.

I adjust my vengeance accordingly.

10-01-2006, 09:23 PM	#1 (permalink)
GrendelX Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 27 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Sparring or mugging? Sometimes in class with the newer guys its hard tell the "sparring" isent a friggen mugging... Is this a good way to train? Sometimes I just dont feel like having to fight for my life eveytime I hit the matt.. What do you guys think, does it turn out this way where you train sometimes?

10-01-2006, 11:00 PM	#2 (permalink)
WildWest. Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: NZ Posts: 459 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	New people shouldn't be humiliated or have their confidence crushed when starting sparring. They should be eased into it until they become confident with their techniques and can apply them under more and more pressure. There are some idiots who have been training for a while, in my experience those with an intermediate level of training, who have grasped some good techniques, can't do so well against the more senior students so take out their aggressiveness on the new guys/gals. They need to be reprimanded or put in their place as soon as possible otherwise they scare people off coming back. __________________ "Too much weights, not enough speed work"

10-02-2006, 05:29 AM	#6 (permalink)
osopardo Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Hurricane Alley Posts: 170,033 Posts: 1,915 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	The other side of that coin is "n00bs wit atttitude". These guys come in for the first time thinking they have to prove something. Sparring with them can get downright dangerous. Usually when that happens, two or more of the advanced students will have a talk with the new guy and explain to him how most of us have jobs, school and other important things to do tomorrow and we cannot afford the risk of getting hurt. If that doesn't work, we start yelling at him during sparring to ease up, loud enough for everyone to hear. Hopefully embarrass him into easing up. And if that doesn't work, he's probably never going to change the attitude and he's asked to leave. Our last one like that was this really nice friendly guy; air force reserve, EMT, young, fit, strong. Very inexperienced. He just didn't seem to know how to hold back. The worst part was he also had his wife there, training with us. We wound up having to take turns kicking his butt with more advanced techniques until we wore him down. It was humiliating and grueling and he even lost some time off from work and training because of sore ribs, sprained muscles, etc. Totally unnecessary. __________________ Le Bear Extraordinaire! *Mike Brewer's 2008 Athleticon Challenge!!!* Pushups Completed: 5 1/2 Situps Completed: Does using my hands count?

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10-01-2006, 11:27 PM	#3 (permalink)
3mptin3ss Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Cali Posts: 280 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	we all die eventually, so it doesnt even really matter.

10-02-2006, 12:16 AM	#4 (permalink)
Kenny Chance Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 31 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	thats actually waht I expected coming into class the first time, being as small as I am I thought the older students and bigger guys would completly dominate me but what Ive found is that when they get an advantage on me, such as passing guard and getting side control, they would stop, go back to guard and show me how to prevent what they just did. or if i would get an advantage theyd tell me where i should go from there and how to capitalize. it was a much better way to learn than to just make me tap over and over, and honestly, the amount of help i recieved from other students is one of the reasons i ended up liking the school so much

10-05-2006, 09:28 AM	#10 (permalink)
Penance Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 280 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I hate guys that slam. I don't ever give them shit about it, but I definitely remember who has slammed me, how many times, and how hard. I adjust my vengeance accordingly.

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