Upper body locks or lower body locks

[daringdex]

Hi guys. Just wanted to know if most of you guys prefer the upper body lock s like chokes,armlocks and headlocks or you prefer the lower body locks like foot or leglocks.

I prefer both but for me I would go more on leglocks...

I trained with a Muay Thai Champ here in the Philippines and I just grappled with him. He is not that good but his movement and upperbody defense was good. I was suprised that it gave me a hard time to choke and catch him with armlocks so I went to the leglocks which made me tap him out.

[Kenny Chance]

Being new I use upper body locks more often because I think I have kind of an "american" idea of grappling, but I find leglocks to be much more effective for me. Its just hard getting into the mindset of using them to my advantage when until then I had never really used them before, I have to kind of force myself to think about going for a triangle or something, but I suppose as I progress and in time itll become a lot more natural

[blitz]

When I was new, I liked the leglocks more, I still do in general. But I'd still rather do upper body locks, since they don't have time to struggle as much. Like when you're going for an achilles lock, they try to take your foot and they keep trying to stand, usually when their in an armbar, they can't struggle as much.

[OmaPlata]

LEglocks seems to very easy to get, esp. when guys are just not at all thinking about them and defending them. that sounds dumb but so many guys forgot and give their legs, its easy to get them. i once got a purple belt when i was a white belt. after that the guy spanked the hell out of me everytime we rolled, prick.
I also like the knee-bar when im standing and the opp. is on the ground with his legs up, trying to get me to fall into his guard. Theres a move where you reach under his knee/anlke area and step between his legs and roll right into the kneebar. IT works rather well, and its funny because in MMa ive never seen anyone do it and so many guys are on the backs trying to kick that it would be 'easy' to tap them

[Adept]

I go for whatever people give me. If they give me an arm, I'll take the arm. They give me a leg, I'll take the leg. But generally, unless I'm sparring an almost equal opponent, I don't go for leglocks because of safety issues. One night during a GJJ class, I caught my partner in a heel hook and wanted to crank it up but I saw that he wasn't going to tap so I let it go. No point in injuring him unless it was a real fight.

But to answer your question, I prefer chokes first. Even if people tap too slow or don't like to tap, at least they won't have to go to the hospital for a broken bone.

[doubleouch]

Leglocks are iffy for 2 reasons.
First, most leg locks require you to give up position. If they are not successful you end up in a scramble.
Second, some people use them as a crutch when they can't pass the guard. They should be an addition to the guard passing game and not a replacement for it.

I've found some folks whose ankles are incredibly strong and are almost immune to ankle locks. The knee joint however is succeptable on anyone.

[OmaPlata]

Originally Posted by doubleouch

Leglocks are iffy for 2 reasons.
First, most leg locks require you to give up position. If they are not successful you end up in a scramble.
Second, some people use them as a crutch when they can't pass the guard. They should be an addition to the guard passing game and not a replacement for it.

I've found some folks whose ankles are incredibly strong and are almost immune to ankle locks. The knee joint however is succeptable on anyone.

yeah some guys wont tap to achilles locks or heel hooks. I saw Dean Lister get tapped out by 2 consecutive heel hooks in a matter of minutes by the guy Jaco that trained at Fabios with Dean. Dean, who is a sambo champion and probably the hardest guy in the world to get to tap to a toe hold/anlke lock,etc, let out a huge scream throughout the gym, propting Fabio to come out and yell at him for yelling so loud.
anyway, better to go for them on guys with skinny legs, the thick oak tree legged guys dont tap easily to those

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

^People might not tap to heel hooks because they dont hurt(until your knee pops and its pernamently damaged), not because theyre immune to them. Ankle locks dont hurt either, until it actually snaps, but some people are "immune" to them. Heel hooks are a different story though.... I was put into a heel hook, just as a demostration for the move, and the term "heel hook" runs shivers down my spine now. More like a "Knee hook".

[danfaggella]

Upper body locks are by far more esential in grappling competition and in self-defence. basic chokes and armlocks are what we see time and time again in MMA and in submission grappling. Not to mention, if I was ever in the street I wouldn't want to be on the ground with the guy cranking a heel hook, (he has shoes on anyway) I'd want to fight to a dominant position, throw a few blows and maybe go for a submission that doesn't require me to give up my mobile and dominant top position.

[Tim McFatridge]

I love both but depending on who I am rolling with I really like the lower body. Also, you do not have to be on the ground in order to pull off a heel hook or achilles lock. It does not matter if the guy is wearing shoes or not you can still get the heel hook or achilles lock jsut as easy. IMO it is easier to get a heel hook when the guy does have on shoes than when he is barefoot because you have something to grab on to and it is harder for him to slide his foot out. I have pulled off a standing heel hook in a no gi tournament before. I shot in for a double leg and took the guy down but did not go down my self(since the guy was scary good on the ground) when he went down I captured his right leg and set the heel hook nice and deep under my arm and stepped over him with my right leg and squeezed with my knees as I twisted and stood straight up. Did not take long for him to tap. This was not because I was that good but because he did not expect me to stay standing and go for anything. However with a really big guy I would not go for any lower body submission unless he just gave them to me. I would prefer going for a choke or arm lock of some kind.

[doubleouch]

I found this on a SBG forum. Thought it was relevant to this thread.
I was at a Chris Haueter seminar a few weeks back and he made it clear he hates footlocks. Why? Two reasons:

1. Slows Growth - People who get good at footlocks look for them everywhere and stop working other parts of their game.

2. Doesn't Stop a fight - His view was that people will keep fighting in the street if you break their foot so its not really a fight ender.

This second point I found particularly interesting and thought it might be another angle in formulating a game. As I build up my personal game I have created a few rules along the way that I try to live by. They are as follows:

1. Core techniques should apply gi/no gi.

2. Hold top position whenever possible (pomission better than fall back armbar)

3. Find control points before thinking sumbmission (ie. in side control, lockdown/block guard/kill near arm before ever thinking of a sub)

A fourth candidate is around the submission heirarchy. It's like a positional heirarchy of (mount better than side control, etc, etc), but focused on finishes. The list from best to worst is...Chokes > Shoulder Locks > Armbars > Kneebars > Footlocks > Wristlocks > Finger Locks.

So my 4th would be....

4. Look for subs in the following order: chokes, shoulders, arms, knees, feet, wrists, fingers, and finally ninja death touch.

[Tim McFatridge]

Hey don't under estimate the ninja death touch or the vulcan death hold, that is some powerful shiat your talking about there.