Mixed Martial Arts, One of the oldest forms of fighting.

[knifethrower]

Originally Posted by jubaji

No, I don't. I only have your own words on the matter to go by, and they suggest otherwise...

That's what you get out of it but, not what was put into it.......you got something pinned up inside, man……….

[jubaji]

Originally Posted by knifethrower

Wow...I was having fun with my kids; In a good way. .....

That's what they all say...

[jubaji]

Originally Posted by knifethrower

you got something pinned up inside, man……….

That's what you ought to consider carefully about yourself...

[knifethrower]

Originally Posted by jubaji

That's what they all say...

Originally Posted by jubaji

think about it for a second, dope
That's what you ought to consider carefully about yourself...

Hmmmm…ok…two weird comments but, ok…


Nothing like what you're talking about. Damn....



Come on dude...chill--------

[JkD187]

Your the man Mike! Glad to see at least you have the Integrity to back up what you believe in 100%.

[knifethrower]

Originally Posted by jubaji

Just for the record: You can keep this 'bit' up for as long as you like, but your (not so) clever little attempt to make me 'mad' is only going result in making you look like more and more of a moron. I suppose you're used to that by now, but I thought I'd do you the favor of letting you know how transparent and clumsy all this shit is.

Anyway, carry on if you must.

Yep.......He's pissed------------------

[Uke]

I would like to see just ONE point that Mike Brewer has "won" or refuted. If this is the same way that you've been counting all those supposed fights you had on the mean streets of Colorado Springs, then this too paints a perfect picture. Maybe I haven't made this dialogue about the points enough.

1) Teaching anyone, let alone children and women sportive methods for the use of combat including but not limited to weapon defense and disarms multiple attackers is irresponsible. You won't find a reputable school that claims to teach SD or combatives that uses that approach.

2)Calling a school premier when you don't know what's being taught there is a fast way to get exposed as being full of shit. The Defense Institute does teach sport kickboxing and does train athletes for participation in MMA events. However, they do NOT blur the line between where sportive methods end and reality begins. I've already provided the link, but it wasn't necessary for me because I know that no one claiming to teach VAJ would make such foolish claims. Unlike some people, there is a strong, concrete curriculum that students don't deviate from.

And unlike Mike, people who have actually trained for more than 3 years don't have to make shit up as they go along. And its not just VAJ or the Defense Institute. I've been to Renzo's school in NY when he was partnered with Craig Kukuk and they have acknowledged that what they do in the ring is sportive. I have discussed this with Matt Serra, who lives in NY, trained under Renzo and been in the UFC and Abu Dhabi and he acknowledges that what he does is sport. A tough, demanding sport, but sport nonetheless. Matt Thornton has on occasion asked my senior to come to his schools and teach SD and its principles because while he loves and believes in MMA, he is intelligent enough to know that it isn't meant for the streets so he invites one of the best to come introduce his students to street reality. And Thornton flat out puts it out there: "SBGi is not a wrestling Gym, or MMA "fight club". These men are all great at what they do but have enough sense to call a spade a spade.

Who is Mike Brewer again?

3)Attempting to discuss subject matter that you don't know about with authority further exposes you as full of shit. No matter how you see it Mike Brewer, you were on the soft and hard topic running at the mouth yet again like you knew what you were talking about even though you admitted in your first post on the topic that you didn't. Several members posting there told you the same, but as usual Mike took it as an attack instead of realizing that people who DID know what they were talking about were telling him that his bullshit was transparent and he should read if he wanted to learn and stop preaching. Of course he opted to preach.

4)Constantly telling other people on an internet forum about how tough you are makes you lame. This is undeniably true. When you have to take time out to explain to people that you don't know that you've survived through odds and kicked ass that you can't prove, why bother doing it? Its so that you can lend some sort of "Fonzy" coolness to your posts so the younger posters who might be impressed by that bullshit won't question the things that you write.

5)Why write one thing to disagree with it later?

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

Combat is indeed different from ring sport, so if someone trains to compete then they will be missing a whole great big piece of "fighting" when it comes to things like weapons, multiple attackers, surprise attacks, cluttered environments, weight classes or the lack thereof and many other factors. Those things are not part ofthe sport, and therefore, people who train for the sport will generally be unprepared for the variables themselves. To that end, you're 100% correct.

Oh so you agreed with that? What happened? Change your mind again for no reason?

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

Now fighting being what it is, it's always best to train to be the little guy and assume that "He" is always "They," and "they" are always armed. that reduces the effectiveness of MMA to a conditioning and mindset exercise, with your other training taking the lead as far as applicable skill for the situation.

Isn't that what I've been saying in this debate? That MMA is the sportive training and conditioning methods that kickboxers who now wrestle use? What made you change your mind there? Or are you arguing now just to seem like you know something?

Its called hypocrisy. You agree, then you later disagree depending on your mood. You're saying nowadays that MMA methods are applicable in SD combat, but just above you wrote that on the street MMA is reduced to conditioning exercises and a mindset. Which is it? Toe jams must be tasty because you sure keep your foot in your mouth a lot, Mike.

Next you'll be making shit up about how we were saying that MMA fighters COULD NOT learn SD and that SD only works for non-MMA fighters.

The debate has always been about:

The way an intelligent man fights is designed around the most lethal ways that he can be harmed and/or killed which are edged weapons and firearms. His goal is to work smarter, not harder. His training is geared to maximize his efforts by being armed and dirty, not to be fair or fun.

You seemed to have understood that when you wrote the above quotes, but somewhere along the way you got lost. Are you now telling us that within a matter of months you, Mike Brewer, have devised a way for MMA to be all the things you said that it wasn't?

I doubt it. And the fact that you won't put your personal opinions about combat into practice by opening your own school to compete with the schools that you see as premiere means that you yourself don't even believe what you're writing.

Your feeble explanation as to how other schools are doing it is nonsense. StraightBlast is NOT an MMA gym and does not teach MMA as a form of street self defense. Defense Institute is NOT an MMA gym and does not teach MMA as street self defense. The Dog Brothers are not an MMA gym and do NOT teach MMA as street self defense. But you mention ALL of these schools to support your arguments, and none of them fit the criteria. They all offer MMA as a sport for competition and fun, but they all make it clear that they're not teaching MMA as a self defense method.

No one is. So you can continue to write as if you've won something here and pat yourself on the back about arguments that you fail to address. But in the end, all you'll have are the impressionable minds of people here who don't know any better. Have fun doing it, but while you are having fun think about this:

The man's school who you call premier for reality comes from the same family that I do and teaches the same SD foundation, fundamentals and skillsets that are found here at the headquarters in NYC. You call it premier yet argue against the same methodology that I have been writing all along, which is just another instance of hypocrisy.

[BoarSpear]

Originally Posted by Uke

I would like to see just ONE point that Mike Brewer has "won" or refuted. If this is the same way that you've been counting all those supposed fights you had on the mean streets of Colorado Springs, then this too paints a perfect picture. Maybe I haven't made this dialogue about the points enough.

1) Teaching anyone, let alone children and women sportive methods for the use of combat including but not limited to weapon defense and disarms multiple attackers is irresponsible. You won't find a reputable school that claims to teach SD or combatives that uses that approach.

2)Calling a school premier when you don't know what's being taught there is a fast way to get exposed as being full of shit. The Defense Institute does teach sport kickboxing and does train athletes for participation in MMA events. However, they do NOT blur the line between where sportive methods end and reality begins. I've already provided the link, but it wasn't necessary for me because I know that no one claiming to teach VAJ would make such foolish claims. Unlike some people, there is a strong, concrete curriculum that students don't deviate from.

And unlike Mike, people who have actually trained for more than 3 years don't have to make shit up as they go along. And its not just VAJ or the Defense Institute. I've been to Renzo's school in NY when he was partnered with Craig Kukuk and they have acknowledged that waht they do in the ring is sportive. I have discussed this with Matt Serra, who lives in NY, trained under Renzo and been in the UFC and Abu Dhabi and he acknowledges that what he does is sport. A tough, demanding sport, but sport nonetheless. Matt Thornton has on occasion asked my senior to come to his schools and teach SD and its principles because while he loves and believes in MMA, he is intelligent enough to know that it isn't meant for the streets so he invites the one of the best to come introduce his students to street reality. And Thornton flat out puts it out there: "SBGi is not a wrestling Gym, or MMA "fight club". These men are all great at what they do but have enough sense to call a spade a spade.

Who is Mike Brewer again?

3)Attempting to discuss subject matter that you don't know about with authority further exposes you as full of shit. No matter how you see it Mike Brewer, you were on the soft and hard topic running at the mouth yet again like you knew what you were talking about even though you admitted in your first post on the topic that you didn't. Several members posting there told you the same, but as usual Mike took it as an attack instead of realizing that people who DID know what they were talking about were telling him that his bullshit was transparent and he should read if he wanted to learn and stop preaching. Of course he opted to preach.

4)Constantly telling other people on an internet forum about how tough you are makes you lame. This is undeniably true. When you have to take time out to explain to people that you don't know that you've survived through odds and kicked ass that you can't prove, why bother doing it? Its so that you can lend some sort of "Fonzy" coolness to your posts so the younger posters who might be impressed by that bullshit won't question the things that you write.

5)Why write one thing to disagree with it later?



Oh so you agreed with that? What happened? Change your mind again for no reason?



Isn't that what I've been saying in this debate? That MMA is the sportive training and conditioning methods that kickboxers who now wrestle use? What made you change your mind there? Or are you arguing now just to seem like you know something?

Its called hypocrisy. You agree, then you later disagree depending on your mood. You're saying nowadays that MMA methods are applicable in SD combat, but just above you wrote that on the street MMA is reduced to conditioning exercises and a mindset. Which is it? Toe jams must be tasty because you sure keep your foot in your mouth a lot, Mike.

Next you'll be making shit up about how we were saying that MMA fighters COULD NOT learn SD and that SD only works for non-MMA fighters.

The debate has always been about:

The way an intelligent man fights is designed around the most lethal ways that he can be harmed and/or killed which are edged weapons and firearms. His goal is to work smarter, not harder. His training is geared to maximize his efforts by being armed and dirty, not to be fair or fun.

You seemed to have understood that when you wrote the above quotes, but somewhere along the way you got lost. Are you now telling us that within a matter of months you, Mike Brewer, have devised a way for MMA to be all the things you said that it wasn't?

I doubt it. And the fact that you won't put your personal opinions about combat into practice by opening your own school to compete with the schools that you see as premiere means that you yourself don't even believe what you're writing.

Your feeble explanation as to how other schools are doing it is nonsense. StraightBlast is NOT an MMA gym and does not teach MMA as a form of street self defense. Defense Institute is NOT an MMA gym and does not teach MMA as street self defense. The Dog Brothers are not an MMA gym and do NOT teach MMA as street self defense. But you mention ALL of these schools to support your arguments, and none of them fit the criteria. They all offer MMA as a sport for competition and fun, but they all make it clear that they're not teaching MMA as a self defense method.

No one is. So you can continue to write as if you've won something here and pat yourself on the back about arguments that you fail to address. But in the end, all you'll have are the impressionable minds of people here who don't know any better. Have fun doing it, but while you are having fun think about this:

The man's school who you call premier for reality comes from the same family that I do and teaches the same SD foundation, fundamentals and skillsets that are found here at the headquarters in NYC. You call it premier yet argue against the same methodology that I have been writing all along, which is just another instance of hypocrisy.

Ouch.

[BoarSpear]

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

I've been begging BoarSpear for over a year now to quit whining unless he was willing to offer at least an opinion on what a better way might be and he hasn't done it yet.

Just another LIE from Mike Sewer. JUST GO READ THE OLD POSTS from before I got tired of arguing with idiots over established facts of styles they have NEVER seen much less practiced.

Feel free to go back and read the first several thousand posts...notice I was more than willing to discuss, but the idiots were too busy showing how moronic they could be.


Try reading the thread where the super moderator lost it and threatened to punch me...there was plenty of substance until that was allowed to stand...but I got a penalty card for "insulting" trolls. More like I got one because it showed just how much of expert Sewer really was on the subject...the very same pic is circulating throughout SF and law enforcement communities with comments how our 5 year olds thought it was funny (and noticed the backwards mag)...Sewer missed it though... HENCE THE PENALTY CARD. But don't let the waves of shit from the the Sewer overwhelm you ...just READ the old posts.

[Uke]

Originally Posted by Tom Yum

A SD ortiented jujitsu practioner isn't going to jump guard on the street; he only does this during a grappling competition.

A SD orientated jujitsu practitioner isn't what you think Tom. First off, any decent jujitsu man knows that you have to earn the right to use jujitsu. He's not going to jump right into ANY jujitsu. No one is going to stand there and let you grab wrists, do arm locks or attempt submissions with no resistance.

All the methods that you mention Tom assume that its safe to attempt an armbar, lapel choke, key lock or guillotine. Those maneuvers are only safe to use once you've broken a man down and seek to finish him off. There are ways to perform the moves you mentioned in SD Tom, but nearly none of them involve laying on your back or sacrificing awareness by mounting and grounding and pounding.

Originally Posted by Tom Yum

You can pull these off in the dojo with a resisting opponent; you can pull them off in the street just as well, especially if you end up on the ground despite your best efforts

Take some advice from your boy Mike back when he wrote "Its better to assume that "He" is always "They," and "they" are always armed. Its probably the smartest thing he's ever written and if he truly believes that then he knows it should discourage anyone from attempting sporting maneuvers that don't take weapons or multiple attackers into account. Anyone with common sense isn't trying to "pull off" moves in the street. There is a logical way to engage an attack and then there is the luck of the draw pulling something off. I'm sure you could "pull off" a figure four leg lock in a fight but it would be stupid to teach your students that its a viable method of self defense because you're on the ground tied up with your opponent and you have no mobility and much less awareness.

Rickson Gracie is arguably one of the best ground grapplers in the world, and even he isn't going to successfully ground grapple and win against 2+ men. That says a lot about your odds.

[JustaFighter]

So Uke and Boar, what specifically are the styles/systems you two train in?

[jubaji]

Originally Posted by Uke

but nearly none of them involve sacrificing awareness by mounting and grounding and pounding.

LOL....................

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

BoarSpear, its not my intention to frustrate you or even insult you like you claimed. Its just that you've ducked this question....

What are the 4 approved methods of throwing someone in mongolian wrestling?

And how do you go about training something like that?



And Uke, i think we would like to know what you train in....?

[Tom Yum]

Originally Posted by Uke

All the methods that you mention Tom assume that its safe to attempt an armbar, lapel choke, key lock or guillotine. Those maneuvers are only safe to use once you've broken a man down and seek to finish him off. There are ways to perform the moves you mentioned in SD Tom, but nearly none of them involve laying on your back or sacrificing awareness by mounting and grounding and pounding. .

The point wasn't to ground and pound, although that's fine - its when you're thrown/fall/slip on the ground and someone comes down with you. You've got no choice but to grapple.

Originally Posted by Uke

Take some advice from your boy Mike back when he wrote "Its better to assume that "He" is always "They," and "they" are always armed. Its probably the smartest thing he's ever written and if he truly believes that then he knows it should discourage anyone from attempting sporting maneuvers that don't take weapons or multiple attackers into account. Anyone with common sense isn't trying to "pull off" moves in the street. There is a logical way to engage an attack and then there is the luck of the draw pulling something off. I'm sure you could "pull off" a figure four leg lock in a fight but it would be stupid to teach your students that its a viable method of self defense because you're on the ground tied up with your opponent and you have no mobility and much less awareness.

Rickson Gracie is arguably one of the best ground grapplers in the world, and even he isn't going to successfully ground grapple and win against 2+ men. That says a lot about your odds.

I'm not advocating staying on the ground, jumping guard or even going there to get a finishing hold. I'm saying its better to be able to function on the ground when you have no choice but to fight from there.

[BoarSpear]

Originally Posted by 7r14ngL3Ch0k3

BoarSpear, its not my intention to frustrate you or even insult you like you claimed. Its just that you've ducked this question....

What are the 4 approved methods of throwing someone in mongolian wrestling?

And how do you go about training something like that?



And Uke, i think we would like to know what you train in....?

Uh dude you spent a hundred post dogging me while being jubaji's boy...now you want answers? I guess you shouldnt have sided with the idiots jabbering about things they didnt know...YOU pmed me later and BEGGED me to come back..you even said you would help get rid of Jubaji (because the MOD'S waanted too) if I'd come back...need your pm posted to refresh your memory?

At this point it's amusing to watch the experts here flounder in thier own BS.