Does anyone know of any good BJJ flow drills?

[Aaron04]

I'm convinced that flow drills are the best way to get good at BJJ. While I'm reasonably good, I want to incorporate some new training methods. Almost all of my training now revolves around rolling, but I'm interested in some flow drills. I know a few basic ones, but does anyone know of any really in depth ones? By in depth, I mean drills that encompass virtually every position, most submissions from those positions, defenses against those submissions, transitions from position to position, etc? I've seen the ones at Lockflow.com, and they are decent, but way too short. Even if it had 100 steps, that would be great.

Thanks.

[Tim Mousel]

The articles page has a couple of diagrams of flows that a forum member got from Rickson:

http://www.defend.net/articles.php

[doubleouch]

I wonder what makes you so sure that flow drills are the thing? I have exactly the opposite opinion. I think they mostly are a waste of time. I don't think repeating movements over and over will do anything much. Progressive resistance and isolation sparring are much better.

[Cheesalicious]

Originally Posted by doubleouch

I don't think repeating movements over and over will do anything much. Progressive resistance and isolation sparring are much better.

I think that repetition AND progressive resistance/isolation sparring are both vital to improvement. Repetition with no resistance trains muscle memory and helps you get the mechanics of techniques down pat. Training with the latter method hones your timing.

[Aaron04]

Thanks Cheesalicious. Doubleouch, I think flow drills would be an ideal way of training because of the fact that if they are in depth enough, they would cover all (or most) positions and submissions. I will often roll for an entire hour and not assume certain positions, escape certain positions, use certain submissions, escape certain submissions, etc. As a result, my game in those areas does not get any work.

Going through a flow drill a few times, however, would put both you and your partner in the various positions, allowing you to work both your offense and defense during the drill. It helps develop the muscle memory effect. I usually don't try to get mounted, caught in side control on the bottom, etc, when I'm rolling, but flow drills would definitely allow me to work those positions with proper body mechanics.

I've been using a flow drill that involves about 15 steps, and it has improved my game dramatically.

So back to the original question, does anyone know of any good ones that cover much more than just 15 steps?

Thanks

[yenhoi]

I you buy a video/dvd from Dan Inosanto, Larry Hartsell, Rick Faye, or Erik Paulson you will get plenty of lockflows. Probably others like Paul Vunak, Rick Young, Mark McFann, but I doubt they are as easy to find.

[yenhoi]

I have a basic shooto lockflow that I will scan for you, it has 22 basic "moves" and over 40 total when you do/count the variations.

I think its from 1992 Satoru Sayama book or something like that.

[doubleouch]

Not to beat a dead horse, but repetition without some resistance is of little value. Muscle memory requires resistance to fully work. I do plenty of rep work, but always against progressive resistance. It works much better than dead pattern. Without resistance you can get no real feel of energy and you are missing at least half of the technique. Therefore lockflows teach you techniques halfway at best. I don't mind short 2 or 3 movement flows that are practiced with the partner giving appropriate resistance. Longer than that and you are getting into the realm of kata. Once a student knows where to put their arms and legs then mechanics must be practiced against resistance or they won't be able to pull off a technique.

Aaron, getting into certain positions is a problem. What I do is have guys start in some of those positions and do some isolation sparring. It works well and gives them time to work some of those positions they don't get to much. Sometimes I'll start them 3/4 of the way through a technique and work from there. Gradually backing out until they are starting from a neutral position. That way they can get plenty of reps but they get the resistance as well.

[Aaron04]

Thanks Yenhoi. I've looked into those names that you mentioned but didn't find any videos that mention any flow drills. The JKD people are the first ones that I looked into . Do you know of any specific titles? The one flow drill that I have been doing is from Paul Vunak's Kino Mutai video. It's a great drill, but I would like something about 4 times longer. I'm looking forward to that Shooto flow drill that you spoke of.

Doubleouch, I know what you mean when you speak of training with no resistance, and how it is of little value. As of now, virtually all of my training consists of rolling, so basically the only way I train is with total resistance. I need to balance it out so that I am working some technical stuff as well. Sometimes when I roll with a lesser-experienced person, I will allow myself to get almost caught in a submission or be put into a bad position so that I can work my defense against subs or escaping bad positions. However, with a more skilled partner, I usually don't intentionally let that happen, it just happens anyway. As a result, I will often not train certain offensive or defensive aspects of grappling in a training session. However, if I began my training session with an intricate flow drill, I would be working everything, both offensive and defensive, during the drill. It is in this context that I think a flow drill would be ideal. If you are still not convinced, I highly recommend Paul Vunak's Kino Mutai video, it has a very good flow drill in it.

Thanks

[yenhoi]

I will have to think harder to come up with specific titles. The first the comes to mind is Dan Inosantos 5 part JKD series demonstrated by Erik paulson and Rick Young. Most of my video collection turns out to be tapes of seminars, all those guys show and use lockflows at seminars. Larry Hartsell has a few books, "hardcore Training & Strategies Guide," and "Conditioning and Grappling Methods" - both have a couple smaller lockflows (I think.) Pretty much any Erik Paulson instructional or seminar will have several position/lockflows even the newer CSW stuff.

I am about halfway done with the shooto flow.

[doubleouch]

Aaron,
I'll only address this one more time, then I'll let it die. Rolling all the time is not the best training. It's better than dead pattern no doubt. What you need to balance just rolling is isolation sparring. This is where you roll with a particular objective and shorten the game. For example we often do a reset drill. One person works on passing the guard, the other on stopping. If the top guy gets the pass you go back in and try again. You can even work with certain specific passes etc. Sometimes we'll go with a person for example almost all the way caught in an armbar and have them go from there. If someone gets the armbar they reset. If the person gets out, they reset. This way you can work most any position or sub getting plenty of reps with resistance. When learning something completely new though we will have students do some reps without resistance. Only long enough to know where to put their arms and legs though.

OK, I'm done.