best takedown

[Tant01]

Originally Posted by The_Judo_Jibboo

this is actually much as i was picturing what he was describing tant, not actually leveraging the guy over by the neck but swinging the body weight down between the legs like in the technique you linked. the danger i see with the guillotine choke variation is in putting the crown of the poor guy's head straight down into the ground.

That is one of my personal favorite things to do Jibbo.

The problem with the shimewaza version is that your forearm across his neck ISOLATES the vertibra. If you're TRYING to break his neck (dislocate) then that's a good way to do it.

But don't take my word for nuthin...

[The_Judo_Jibboo]

Originally Posted by Tant01

That is one of my personal favorite things to do Jibbo.

The problem with the shimewaza version is that your forearm across his neck ISOLATES the vertibra. If you're TRYING to break his neck (dislocate) then that's a good way to do it.

But don't take my word for nuthin...

eesh, you don't play nice Tanto

and by the way i've never seen reason not to take your word at face value thus far.

[Bjjexpertise@be]

From what I see of this technique, there's no way you can pull it off against someone your size or bigger than you. Which would mean you're probably picking on a little chump when you do this move.

[Clooneytkd]

and thats the problem i had with judo, although most moves are really good and usable gi or no gi, some judo moves arn't that practical making them not all that effective against someone who knows what there doing.

[SamuraiGuy]

Originally Posted by Clooneytkd

and thats the problem i had with judo, although most moves are really good and usable gi or no gi, some judo moves arn't that practical making them not all that effective against someone who knows what there doing.

You mean when I wrestle someone that "knows what theyre doing", I'll still be able to shoot the double as if I was wrestling someone on their first day?


Of course its gonna be much harder for a smaller person to do moves to a bigger person, but they are still very very effective when done properly. I've thrown people much bigger than me, and been thrown by people much much smaller than me.

You've obviously never gone up against "old man judo" he weighs about 130-140 pounds and will put you on the floor before you can blink.

[Clooneytkd]

Originally Posted by SamuraiGuy

You mean when I wrestle someone that "knows what theyre doing", I'll still be able to shoot the double as if I was wrestling someone on their first day?


Of course its gonna be much harder for a smaller person to do moves to a bigger person, but they are still very very effective when done properly. I've thrown people much bigger than me, and been thrown by people much much smaller than me.

You've obviously never gone up against "old man judo" he weighs about 130-140 pounds and will put you on the floor before you can blink.

well i mean no matter what size you are if you see something like a throw coming your either going to fall down so you dont get embarassed or struggle like a maniac. some judo moves have pretty big tells and all you need to do is see where there hands are placed.

[The_Judo_Jibboo]

Originally Posted by Clooneytkd

well i mean no matter what size you are if you see something like a throw coming your either going to fall down so you dont get embarassed or struggle like a maniac. some judo moves have pretty big tells and all you need to do is see where there hands are placed.

seen any Karo Parisyan fights?

what's an example of a throw with a "big tell"?

[Sandtiger]

Originally Posted by The_Judo_Jibboo

this is actually much as i was picturing what he was describing tant, not actually leveraging the guy over by the neck but swinging the body weight down between the legs like in the technique you linked. the danger i see with the guillotine choke variation is in putting the crown of the poor guy's head straight down into the ground.

That is basically what I am doing. I am not just doing a neck crank and I never let the head hit first. Like I said it has been a long time since wrestling and what we called something then never seems to correlate to the Judo or Jujitsu terms. I may be using the wrong term when calling it a guillotine choke. It is basically what I would say is a front head lock, left arm over their arm and the right arm over their neck, then grabbing my right arm with my left at about the tricep. I was told the bjj term is guillotine choke.

[Tom Yum]

Originally Posted by SamuraiGuy

You've obviously never gone up against "old man judo" he weighs about 130-140 pounds and will put you on the floor before you can blink.

And thats what makes the martial arts so interesting.

The skinny, meek looking dudes that can toss you into a pile

[Clooneytkd]

Originally Posted by The_Judo_Jibboo

seen any Karo Parisyan fights?

what's an example of a throw with a "big tell"?

i think parisyan is great. his throws are slick and fast and thats why they work. most of them are like better versions of judo throws because they are clean. when i look at his throws compared to traditional gi throws, they tend to be much more practical in application. obviously the reason of this is because he has had alot of competion and created more realistic methods of achiveing these moves. not saying that traditional methods are crap, because there not. i enjoyed my time in judo i just didnt agree with certain things like the stance and the way you had to process some throws. but thats the difference between an ignorant wrestler and a 90 year old guy with a sweet beard, we both have are own ways of aproaching things.

[SamuraiGuy]

Oh man, lmao, lmao

You mean when you say Judo you mean the exact way they do it in the kodokan?

Shit man, most competitive places, etc.. dont do it like that anymore, its still the same throws, but they have multiple multiple ways of doing everything from kuzushi to finish etc.. I can think of about 8 different ways to set up one throw.

You realize when they do Kata in judo etc, the punch isnt even a over hand right its like some wierd ass hammer fist. The kata have their place and that, but really.... obviously some things get changed from the strict form they do the throws with in traditional kodokan judo, even if your doing kodokan judo competitively you have to change it up.

Its the same for every other sport.... everyone shoots a little bit differently there are multiple multiple set ups, if everyone did the exact same shot it would be like what your describing.

Oh and Karo is doing those throws the same way other people are doing them, just with small tweaks, everyone has those small tweaks, doesnt mean he's doing it right or wrong.

[The_Judo_Jibboo]

Originally Posted by Clooneytkd

i think parisyan is great. his throws are slick and fast and thats why they work. most of them are like better versions of judo throws because they are clean. when i look at his throws compared to traditional gi throws, they tend to be much more practical in application. obviously the reason of this is because he has had alot of competion and created more realistic methods of achiveing these moves. not saying that traditional methods are crap, because there not. i enjoyed my time in judo i just didnt agree with certain things like the stance and the way you had to process some throws. but thats the difference between an ignorant wrestler and a 90 year old guy with a sweet beard, we both have are own ways of aproaching things.

Well they aren't "better versions of judo," they are judo. I understand you taking issue with the gis, I'm the first to admit myself that I hate that we are still training to throw people in kimonos! I wish judo was done in t-shirts. But at the same time let's not forget that training to throw a guy in a gi is about as practical as training to throw a barechested guy in a speedo. I'm not going to call into question what you've observed of judo, but it does sound like you haven't seen what really good judo looks like. There are black belts and even good brown belts who throw me with ippon seionage at will like i was standing there letting them do it. Ippon seionage was the first throw we learned! Knowing a throw by no means makes you anywhere near invulnerable to it.

i can absolutely respect that judo is not for you. but it's like my favorite Professor says of Proust; "if his writing isn't really your thing and you don't particularly enjoy it, it's not just you. but if you can't acknowledge the beauty of his writing, it is you." same thing here. judo might not be for you, but there's really no question that judo throws are effective and practical.

[Tant01]

Originally Posted by The_Judo_Jibboo

.....I wish judo was done in t-shirts. But at the same time let's not forget that training to throw a guy in a gi is about as practical as training to throw a barechested guy in a speedo. ....


....

If you live north of the 45th parallel winter jackets are common...

That makes Judo with a Gi very practical at least four or five months out of a year.

[The_Judo_Jibboo]

Originally Posted by Tant01

If you live north of the 45th parallel winter jackets are common...

That makes Judo with a Gi very practical at least four or five months out of a year.

this is true, and it's no big task to adapt the grips to most everyday clothing in any case, it's the principle of the thing that gets me.

there are very positive elements of training with a gi too though, probably the biggest being it improves your defensive abilities both in tachiwaza and newaza (except in regard to a few things like rear naked choke where the gi actually helps protect you) since your opponent has nice solid grips on you. The solid grips also simplify things in a way so that you can understand what is at the core of the technique, which is what allows people like Karo to go on and apply it in all kinds of cool new ways.

so i guess i ammend my statement to wishing that we practiced in t shirts half the time, or maybe once you get to brown belt or something.