Anyone here not recommend guard?

Newbie · 03-04-2001, 07:32 PM

Anyone here believe that a person should never go to the guard in a street fight if you get taken down to the ground and find yourself on the bottom? What position do you recommend other than the guard? The only alternatives I can think of are to let yourself be mounted/side-mounted, let your opponent assume north/south position(although I doubt too many people will try that on you), or to roll over to your stomach and try to work a wrestling escape/reversal from the referee's position.
In particular, anyone here think that it might be preferable to roll over to your stomach and try for a wrestling escape/reversal sinice most people don't know technical chokes anyhow?

Oldskulbus · 03-05-2001, 12:50 AM

Nope.

Bau13 · 03-05-2001, 01:25 AM

Its bad enough to give your back in the ring...
It would be worse on the street...

Mr. Miyagi · 03-05-2001, 12:56 PM

Newbie, I don't understand you! You suggest that the guard is a dangerous place to be on the street, which may be somewhat true, but to suggest that the mount or giving your back would be better is crazy! If most people don't know technical chokes then most people will also be very easy to sweep or armbar too. But how would letting someone mount or sidemount you be better than using the guard?

DanInNeckaha · 03-05-2001, 02:14 PM

Good response, to say you would not want to be in the guard in a streetfight is one thing to say you cannot use it is another. The guard is a superior position to the others mentioned. Giving up the mount or your back is much more dangerous. Even a total novice could try to sink in a choke they saw on wrestling or a UFC tape.

When people talk about not using the guard. They are talking about not being one of the deluded souls who think BJJ like practiced in the ring is the superior street method. No you would not particularly want to go to the guard in a bar or parking lot setting. But it is definitely better than getting beat down while mounted or if you are outmatched in a stand-up fight and you cannot take the guy down into a more dominant position.

sccr06 · 03-05-2001, 04:26 PM

Not to belabour this point anymore than necessary BUT....I think what people are trying to say is not "Don't go to the guard" at all but rather "don't flop into the guard in leiu of a takedown intended to put you in the top position". Too many times at BJJ tourneys you will see players flop to the guard rather than attempt a good takedown. While this may be good strategy for a BJJ tourney, it is not a good idea in the street.

That doesn't mean that if you are put on the bottom in the street you shouldn't go to the guard. The guard should be a position from which you submit or transition to a top position.

IMHO of course.

Patterson · 03-06-2001, 05:05 PM

If I found myself on my back in a fight I would be confident that I'm a better grappler and could safely give my back and stand back up. Or work an open guard and slide into a turtle facing them. I deffinately wouldn't use a closed guard in a real fight. Most people have no ground control ability and it would be easy to stand back up when turtled.

ArAi · 03-07-2001, 09:47 AM

i recommend you give your back when in the street. Then you could use the "break his fists with the back of your head" technique...

or better still, let him mount you bcos god knows you don't want to ever go to the guard in a street fight...
this was you can use the "break his fists with your face" tehcnique...

either way ...you win...

Patterson · 03-07-2001, 02:08 PM

If hes punching the back of your head then hes not controlling you and you can stand. There isn't much leverage punching the back of the head on a turtled opponent. If you are so scarred then put your hands over the back of your head, oo, original thought! Have you watched any mma in the last 5 years? Guys give their back all of the time and don't get punched out.

bobby_steeles · 03-07-2001, 03:05 PM

there's a little bit of a difference with watching mma fights and actually being in a real fight.

Patterson · 03-07-2001, 06:22 PM

Yeah, your opponent isn't as skilled and you need to be more active.

03-07-2001, 06:30 PM

I agree with Patterson, I allow people to punch me in the back of my head all the time, and it has never affected...

What was I saying?

tuffguy · 03-07-2001, 09:38 PM

Paterson: The reason you don't see people getting hit in the back of the head anymore is becasue a lot of organizations don't allow it. If you want to get hit in the back of the head a few times be my guest, but I wouldn't recomend it. Particularly if he hits you at the bass of the skull, after 1 or 2 shots you won't be doing much. What do you mean you don't have any leverage? You have the same leverage that you have in the guard, and you don't have to worry about your arms getting tied up. You can very easily control the person when you turtle up by hugging his waist with 1 arm and punching with the other. I think you need to re-evaluate your thoughts.

Patterson · 03-07-2001, 11:58 PM

The UFC allows it so don't even give me that crap. I guess a better strategy for a real fight is to lay on your back and wait for your opponent to make a mistake, rather than aggressively attempting to get back to your feet. If the average guy can hurt you, and keep you from regaining your feet when you are turtled, then I'm sorry but you really suck as a grappler.

McLeod · 03-08-2001, 01:07 AM

Well, I would say that GOING INTENTIONALY to your guard in a streetfight is stupid if you have the abiliity to KO them or get the takedown. BUT if YOU get taken down, then yes go to guard... it's the whole purpose of the position. Then aggresively attempt to get back to your feet or sweep. Using the guard as you use it in training might be dangerous on the street because of a number of factors. So, in a way, no you don't want to be there, but if you have to be, then yes..it's better than giving your back or allowing a mount.

03-05-2001, 01:25 AM	#3 (permalink)
Bau13 Novice Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 390	Its bad enough to give your back in the ring... It would be worse on the street... __________________ Everything happens for a reason...

03-05-2001, 02:14 PM	#5 (permalink)
DanInNeckaha Novice Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Omaha, Ne Posts: 42	guard Good response, to say you would not want to be in the guard in a streetfight is one thing to say you cannot use it is another. The guard is a superior position to the others mentioned. Giving up the mount or your back is much more dangerous. Even a total novice could try to sink in a choke they saw on wrestling or a UFC tape. When people talk about not using the guard. They are talking about not being one of the deluded souls who think BJJ like practiced in the ring is the superior street method. No you would not particularly want to go to the guard in a bar or parking lot setting. But it is definitely better than getting beat down while mounted or if you are outmatched in a stand-up fight and you cannot take the guy down into a more dominant position. __________________ KISS THE KING BABY

03-05-2001, 04:26 PM	#6 (permalink)
sccr06 Novice Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: LA, CA Posts: 311	Not to belabour this point anymore than necessary BUT....I think what people are trying to say is not "Don't go to the guard" at all but rather "don't flop into the guard in leiu of a takedown intended to put you in the top position". Too many times at BJJ tourneys you will see players flop to the guard rather than attempt a good takedown. While this may be good strategy for a BJJ tourney, it is not a good idea in the street. That doesn't mean that if you are put on the bottom in the street you shouldn't go to the guard. The guard should be a position from which you submit or transition to a top position. IMHO of course. __________________ The noble soul has reverence for itself -Neitzsche

03-07-2001, 09:47 AM	#8 (permalink)
ArAi Novice Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 406	i recommend you give your back when in the street. Then you could use the "break his fists with the back of your head" technique... or better still, let him mount you bcos god knows you don't want to ever go to the guard in a street fight... this was you can use the "break his fists with your face" tehcnique... either way ...you win... __________________ He came to my Dojo... He talk Sh!T... He Tap OuT...

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03-04-2001, 07:32 PM	#1 (permalink)
Newbie Registered User Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 148	Anyone here believe that a person should never go to the guard in a street fight if you get taken down to the ground and find yourself on the bottom? What position do you recommend other than the guard? The only alternatives I can think of are to let yourself be mounted/side-mounted, let your opponent assume north/south position(although I doubt too many people will try that on you), or to roll over to your stomach and try to work a wrestling escape/reversal from the referee's position. In particular, anyone here think that it might be preferable to roll over to your stomach and try for a wrestling escape/reversal sinice most people don't know technical chokes anyhow?

03-05-2001, 12:50 AM	#2 (permalink)
Oldskulbus Novice Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: NP California Posts: 133	Nope.

03-05-2001, 12:56 PM	#4 (permalink)
Mr. Miyagi Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 719	Newbie, I don't understand you! You suggest that the guard is a dangerous place to be on the street, which may be somewhat true, but to suggest that the mount or giving your back would be better is crazy! If most people don't know technical chokes then most people will also be very easy to sweep or armbar too. But how would letting someone mount or sidemount you be better than using the guard?

03-06-2001, 05:05 PM	#7 (permalink)
Patterson Registered User Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: northern california Posts: 317	If I found myself on my back in a fight I would be confident that I'm a better grappler and could safely give my back and stand back up. Or work an open guard and slide into a turtle facing them. I deffinately wouldn't use a closed guard in a real fight. Most people have no ground control ability and it would be easy to stand back up when turtled.

03-07-2001, 02:08 PM	#9 (permalink)
Patterson Registered User Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: northern california Posts: 317	If hes punching the back of your head then hes not controlling you and you can stand. There isn't much leverage punching the back of the head on a turtled opponent. If you are so scarred then put your hands over the back of your head, oo, original thought! Have you watched any mma in the last 5 years? Guys give their back all of the time and don't get punched out.

03-07-2001, 03:05 PM	#10 (permalink)
bobby_steeles Advanced Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: in front of my computer Posts: 650	there's a little bit of a difference with watching mma fights and actually being in a real fight.

03-07-2001, 06:22 PM	#11 (permalink)
Patterson Registered User Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: northern california Posts: 317	Yeah, your opponent isn't as skilled and you need to be more active.

03-07-2001, 06:30 PM	#12 (permalink)
Ronin Guest Posts: n/a	I agree with Patterson, I allow people to punch me in the back of my head all the time, and it has never affected... What was I saying?

03-07-2001, 09:38 PM	#13 (permalink)
tuffguy Novice Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 69	Paterson: The reason you don't see people getting hit in the back of the head anymore is becasue a lot of organizations don't allow it. If you want to get hit in the back of the head a few times be my guest, but I wouldn't recomend it. Particularly if he hits you at the bass of the skull, after 1 or 2 shots you won't be doing much. What do you mean you don't have any leverage? You have the same leverage that you have in the guard, and you don't have to worry about your arms getting tied up. You can very easily control the person when you turtle up by hugging his waist with 1 arm and punching with the other. I think you need to re-evaluate your thoughts.

03-07-2001, 11:58 PM	#14 (permalink)
Patterson Registered User Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: northern california Posts: 317	The UFC allows it so don't even give me that crap. I guess a better strategy for a real fight is to lay on your back and wait for your opponent to make a mistake, rather than aggressively attempting to get back to your feet. If the average guy can hurt you, and keep you from regaining your feet when you are turtled, then I'm sorry but you really suck as a grappler.

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03-08-2001, 01:07 AM	#15 (permalink)
McLeod Master Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 1,574	Well, I would say that GOING INTENTIONALY to your guard in a streetfight is stupid if you have the abiliity to KO them or get the takedown. BUT if YOU get taken down, then yes go to guard... it's the whole purpose of the position. Then aggresively attempt to get back to your feet or sweep. Using the guard as you use it in training might be dangerous on the street because of a number of factors. So, in a way, no you don't want to be there, but if you have to be, then yes..it's better than giving your back or allowing a mount.