The Ultimate in Martial Arts

DickHardman · 04-05-2007, 04:33 AM

do any of you more experienced martial artists know if it is possible to break someones neck or crush their throat with the pressure you put on them with your shoulder when you have them in sidecontrol? i like to make sure to pin peoples heads/jaw strait into the mat with my shoulder when when i have sidecontrol or halfguard to keep them stuck to the floor and demoralize them. i was wondering though, could you gain enough leverage to actually do some real damage with your shoulder?

jubaji · 04-05-2007, 04:35 AM

................................

unlikely.

**Hardball** · 04-05-2007, 06:46 AM

Yea, I just asked that very question in class. With a ghi it's possible but I don't really think you can learn the technique from a fourm. I'll give it a try anyway. From kesa gatame, reach around and grab your own ghi for the "Third Hand effect" and pull up on the neck while you lean into his head with your upper torso.

slayer31 · 04-05-2007, 09:56 AM

i dont know about it being lethal by using your shoulder in the manner that you described.... but it can certainly be lethal.... best example... Mark Kerr... look what he did to people from side control, enough of that will give someone some serious squash rott.

**Hardball** · 04-05-2007, 10:20 AM

From Kesa, you have access to the side of the neck and also the back of the neck. Those are fragile areas just like the knees.

Bjjexpertise@be · 04-05-2007, 04:10 PM

Fellas I think what he's trying to ask is "can it be lethal if he uses shoulder pressure on the guy's head/neck from side control?" I don't know about it being lethal as in a freak accident can cause death. However, I choke beginners out all the time by using shoulder pressure. When they hang on to your head and try to do a guillotine when you're on top of them in side mount you can just shoulder pressure to tap them out.

DickHardman · 04-05-2007, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bjjexpertise@be

Fellas I think what he's trying to ask is "can it be lethal if he uses shoulder pressure on the guy's head/neck from side control?" I don't know about it being lethal as in a freak accident can cause death. However, I choke beginners out all the time by using shoulder pressure. When they hang on to your head and try to do a guillotine when you're on top of them in side mount you can just shoulder pressure to tap them out.

yeah thats more what i was talking about. im pretty sure my instructor could at least break a persons jaw with the amount of pressure he can put into his shoulder from that position.

Bjjexpertise@be · 04-06-2007, 12:05 AM

Yeah shoulder pressure is no joke. If they refuse to compromise from their position they will be forced to tap to it.

The_Judo_Jibboo · 04-06-2007, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardball

From Kesa, you have access to the side of the neck and also the back of the neck. Those are fragile areas just like the knees.

for bjjers and mma guys "side control" usually refers to yoko shiho

DickHardman · 04-06-2007, 01:03 AM

here are the judo neck breaks

http://www.judoinfo.com/kubiwaza.htm

**Hardball** · 04-06-2007, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Judo_Jibboo

for bjjers and mma guys "side control" usually refers to yoko shiho

That's even better!!!

kuk sool won · 04-06-2007, 05:34 PM

lol changing the language makes it much easier to understand

DickHardman · 04-06-2007, 06:55 PM

the judo sidecontrol version is a little different in that they dont protect against the outside leg with their other hand.

**Hardball** · 04-06-2007, 07:18 PM

How about a lethal garami from side control.

The_Judo_Jibboo · 04-07-2007, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DickHardman

the judo sidecontrol version is a little different in that they dont protect against the outside leg with their other hand.

yea the positioning is different with the arms, both for the reason you pointed out and because a pin can finish a judo match, but since that's not the case in mma having that arm under the legs just prevents you from using it or moving to mount

04-05-2007, 04:33 AM	#1 (permalink)
DickHardman Master Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,966 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	can side control be lethal? do any of you more experienced martial artists know if it is possible to break someones neck or crush their throat with the pressure you put on them with your shoulder when you have them in sidecontrol? i like to make sure to pin peoples heads/jaw strait into the mat with my shoulder when when i have sidecontrol or halfguard to keep them stuck to the floor and demoralize them. i was wondering though, could you gain enough leverage to actually do some real damage with your shoulder?

04-05-2007, 04:35 AM	#2 (permalink)
jubaji Registered Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: koko Posts: 10,108 Groans: 0 Groaned at 38 Times in 38 Posts	................................ unlikely. __________________ Optional signature you may use to appear at bottom of your posts.

04-05-2007, 06:46 AM	#3 (permalink)
Hardball Premiere Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,791 Groans: 0 Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post	Yea, I just asked that very question in class. With a ghi it's possible but I don't really think you can learn the technique from a fourm. I'll give it a try anyway. From kesa gatame, reach around and grab your own ghi for the "Third Hand effect" and pull up on the neck while you lean into his head with your upper torso. __________________ The Way of the Warrior is Practice. Daily practice, accumulate practice minute by minute, hour by hour and day by day. {Book of 5 Rings} Calendar year 2009 Crunch Challenge. 39,800/73,000 Calendar Year 2008 Final Crunches 54,000

04-05-2007, 09:56 AM	#4 (permalink)
slayer31 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Boston Beat Down Posts: 105 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	i dont know about it being lethal by using your shoulder in the manner that you described.... but it can certainly be lethal.... best example... Mark Kerr... look what he did to people from side control, enough of that will give someone some serious squash rott. __________________ Almost everything -- all external expectations, all pride, all fear of embarrassment or failure - these things just fall away in the face of death, leaving only what is truly important. Remembering that you are going to die is the best way I know to avoid the trap of thinking you have something to lose.

04-05-2007, 10:20 AM	#5 (permalink)
Hardball Premiere Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,791 Groans: 0 Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post	From Kesa, you have access to the side of the neck and also the back of the neck. Those are fragile areas just like the knees. __________________ The Way of the Warrior is Practice. Daily practice, accumulate practice minute by minute, hour by hour and day by day. {Book of 5 Rings} Calendar year 2009 Crunch Challenge. 39,800/73,000 Calendar Year 2008 Final Crunches 54,000

04-05-2007, 04:10 PM	#6 (permalink)
Bjjexpertise@be Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: florida Posts: 2,023 Groans: 4 Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post	Fellas I think what he's trying to ask is "can it be lethal if he uses shoulder pressure on the guy's head/neck from side control?" I don't know about it being lethal as in a freak accident can cause death. However, I choke beginners out all the time by using shoulder pressure. When they hang on to your head and try to do a guillotine when you're on top of them in side mount you can just shoulder pressure to tap them out. __________________ Mike Brewer's 2008 Athleticon Challenge!!! 45563 Pushups Completed 45563 Situps Completed

04-06-2007, 12:05 AM	#8 (permalink)
Bjjexpertise@be Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: florida Posts: 2,023 Groans: 4 Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post	Yeah shoulder pressure is no joke. If they refuse to compromise from their position they will be forced to tap to it. __________________ Mike Brewer's 2008 Athleticon Challenge!!! 45563 Pushups Completed 45563 Situps Completed

04-06-2007, 01:03 AM	#10 (permalink)
DickHardman Master Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,966 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	here are the judo neck breaks http://www.judoinfo.com/kubiwaza.htm

04-06-2007, 05:34 PM	#12 (permalink)
kuk sool won Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: UK Posts: 570 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	lol changing the language makes it much easier to understand __________________ '...You cannot shake hands with a clenched fist...'

04-06-2007, 06:55 PM	#13 (permalink)
DickHardman Master Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,966 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	the judo sidecontrol version is a little different in that they dont protect against the outside leg with their other hand.

04-06-2007, 07:18 PM	#14 (permalink)
Hardball Premiere Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,791 Groans: 0 Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post	How about a lethal garami from side control. __________________ The Way of the Warrior is Practice. Daily practice, accumulate practice minute by minute, hour by hour and day by day. {Book of 5 Rings} Calendar year 2009 Crunch Challenge. 39,800/73,000 Calendar Year 2008 Final Crunches 54,000

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