Best standup fighter in the world

Rob B · 03-10-2001, 02:45 PM

I know that this is pure speculation but I'm wondering, how would Mike Tyson in his prime do against say Ernesto Hoost or Peter Aerst (also in their primes) with full Muay Thai rules. I personally think that one lead hook by Tyson and it would be over.

duchman · 03-10-2001, 03:12 PM

Dutch people are far better than americans.

Ernesto Hoost or Peter Aerst BY TKO (leg kicks)

Mik_36 · 03-10-2001, 03:39 PM

A little cocky but that's O.K..

I have to admit that I think Rutten was/is a great fighter. I don't know what the Dutch population is so you might be able to make the case that they have produced more great fighters on a per capita basis, but I'm not sure on that. Even though I hate to boost your already huge ego I will give you that they have produced some great ones. But as far as I can see the one COUNTRY which I think has produced the most great fighters has been Brazil.

judo guy · 03-10-2001, 04:01 PM

My vote for best standup fighter is Chris Rock.

Bau13 · 03-10-2001, 04:20 PM

I go with Aerts and Hoost ...
They'd break Tysons legs...

I mean look at what Hoost did to Vov...(TKO leg kicks)
Igor has KO punching power AND he is used to dealing with kicks.....still.....look what happened...
He couldn't close in and connect with his punches...

yes Tysons lead hook would do the job ...but he wouldn't get close enough to land it....

MEB Boy · 03-10-2001, 06:15 PM

How would Pedro Rizzo do against either Hoost or Aerts? Didn't he train w/ Aerts for awhile? Also, what is Rizzo's kickboxing record?

MEB Boy

fil · 03-10-2001, 07:38 PM

Ernesto Hoost does not have a chin good enough to last with a high level pro boxer. I saw a clip of him beeing brutaly KOed by Branco Cikatic early in his K1 career. He has managed to overcome that loss and become a champion similar to Peter Aerts that had KO losses. If a boxer gets KOed like Ernesto did rarely do they manage to overcome the loss and become champions (John Ruiz did it though). You can teach how to defend against kicks/knees but you cant teach a chin...

Top level boxers have a high level tolerance to punishment and have cardio level to go 10 or 12 rounds. K1 fights are 3 to 5 rounds only and still alot of matches do not go the time limit. I have no idea how long regular muay Thai matches are.

Other kickboxers like Maurice Smith tried boxing when he was still young back in 1990 and I know he was KOed twice as a pro boxer. Usually the best athletes will go where the money is and that is boxing.

Anyway I dont like this type of debate, whether an athlete is a boxer, kickboxer or mixed martial athlete they should stick with their own sport.

MEB Boy,
Pedro Rizzo already faught once in K1 years ago against I beleive it was Thompson a British Kickboxer and he was cut up pretty bad and lost by referee stopage (TKO). Any MMA fighter would likly be cannon fodder for K1 veterans like Hoost and Aerts.

PassiveGuy · 03-10-2001, 07:40 PM

Hoost and Aerst definetly, there good enough boxers to not get rocked bad by tysons power punches , if they had good strategy they would KO him easy: keep him back with the teep and work his legs till he drops his hands and slam him with a high round. Thai fighters have enough weapons to drop any boxer (of the same relative level) IMO.

keithws · 03-10-2001, 08:24 PM

I'm pretty sure that Rick Rufus was another guy that started in boxing and didn't find success. So, he converts to kickboxing and has a very good career.

As Fil put it, kickboxers definitely don't have the chin to hang with world class heavies.

Secondly: Make no mistake about it. Vov doesn't even remotely have the punching ability of topnotch boxers.

I think kickboxing has came a long way, but Hoost and Aertes would be professional boxers making millions if they had the ability.

later dudes

festiva · 03-10-2001, 09:44 PM

i agree with keithws exeptions aside leg kickers get knocked out by punchers ..it has something to do with the fact that when you kick you temporarily stop moving because you post on one leg..so the puncher knows where you will be ...devastating..kickboxers have NEVER fared well against boxers not one of you will come up with tournaments where this has happened as a general rule..... ive watched several hundred hours of nhb fights and have never seen it maybe a few exceptions but not the rule tyson today would kill these guys on the stand up nevermind in his prime ...PLEASE WATCH THE TAPES BEFORE YOU MAKE JUDGEMENTS ...LOTS OF TAPES...

Bau13 · 03-11-2001, 02:39 AM

seen the tapes....

still dont think he can beat them...

just my opinion though....plus I am a big K-1 fan..

bobby_steeles · 03-11-2001, 07:38 AM

mike tyson would slap the black off of ernesto hoost. and then bite him.

Hookah Smokin Caterpillar · 03-11-2001, 04:26 PM

I think a lot of people are looking at this the wrong way.

Just because Kick Boxers do poorly in Pro Boxing, doesn't mean they couldn't beat a boxer in a stand up fight. These guy have more tools due to their legs. I think Rob B means in a fight, not a boxing match

Ravenman · 03-12-2001, 12:20 AM

In a kickboxing or muay thai rules fight, the top boxers would be the winners without throwing a single kick.

03-12-2001, 01:07 AM

What tapes? I have heard many rumors of "boxer vs. kickboxer" competitions, but never seen any.

I think a boxer with a decent leg-check could KO many kickboxers. But the Hoost/Vovchanchin fight shows what great kicker can do to a good puncher. Vov never had a chance to expose Hoost's chin.

Obviously prime Tyson would have a better chance, but he would need to learn how to deal with the kicks.

I think that Tyson has a better chance of KO'ing a kickboxer than he does of learning how to grapple. Tyson vs. Hoost would be even money, IMO.

03-10-2001, 03:12 PM	#2 (permalink)
duchman Advanced Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: holland Posts: 1,034 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Dutch people are far better than americans. Ernesto Hoost or Peter Aerst BY TKO (leg kicks) __________________ Aaron "Duchman" Karels

03-10-2001, 04:20 PM	#5 (permalink)
Bau13 Novice Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 390 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I go with Aerts and Hoost ... They'd break Tysons legs... I mean look at what Hoost did to Vov...(TKO leg kicks) Igor has KO punching power AND he is used to dealing with kicks.....still.....look what happened... He couldn't close in and connect with his punches... yes Tysons lead hook would do the job ...but he wouldn't get close enough to land it.... __________________ Everything happens for a reason...

03-10-2001, 08:24 PM	#9 (permalink)
keithws Novice Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Union City, CA Posts: 221 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I'm pretty sure that Rick Rufus was another guy that started in boxing and didn't find success. So, he converts to kickboxing and has a very good career. As Fil put it, kickboxers definitely don't have the chin to hang with world class heavies. Secondly: Make no mistake about it. Vov doesn't even remotely have the punching ability of topnotch boxers. I think kickboxing has came a long way, but Hoost and Aertes would be professional boxers making millions if they had the ability. later dudes __________________ "As long as they stick with fighting BJJ world champions, the japanese will be fine."

03-11-2001, 02:39 AM	#11 (permalink)
Bau13 Novice Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 390 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	seen the tapes.... still dont think he can beat them... just my opinion though....plus I am a big K-1 fan.. __________________ Everything happens for a reason...

03-11-2001, 04:26 PM	#13 (permalink)
Hookah Smokin Caterpillar Novice Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 393 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I think a lot of people are looking at this the wrong way. Just because Kick Boxers do poorly in Pro Boxing, doesn't mean they couldn't beat a boxer in a stand up fight. These guy have more tools due to their legs. I think Rob B means in a fight, not a boxing match __________________ "Living is easy with eyes closed, Misunderstanding all you see, Its getting hard to be someone but it all works out, It doesn't matter much to me..." - Lennon, John

03-10-2001, 02:45 PM	#1 (permalink)
Rob B Novice Join Date: Nov 2000 Posts: 88 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I know that this is pure speculation but I'm wondering, how would Mike Tyson in his prime do against say Ernesto Hoost or Peter Aerst (also in their primes) with full Muay Thai rules. I personally think that one lead hook by Tyson and it would be over.

03-10-2001, 03:39 PM	#3 (permalink)
Mik_36 Novice Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 138 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	A little cocky but that's O.K.. I have to admit that I think Rutten was/is a great fighter. I don't know what the Dutch population is so you might be able to make the case that they have produced more great fighters on a per capita basis, but I'm not sure on that. Even though I hate to boost your already huge ego I will give you that they have produced some great ones. But as far as I can see the one COUNTRY which I think has produced the most great fighters has been Brazil.

03-10-2001, 04:01 PM	#4 (permalink)
judo guy Novice Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 177 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	My vote for best standup fighter is Chris Rock.

03-10-2001, 06:15 PM	#6 (permalink)
MEB Boy Novice Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Hawaii-Texas Posts: 75 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	How would Pedro Rizzo do against either Hoost or Aerts? Didn't he train w/ Aerts for awhile? Also, what is Rizzo's kickboxing record? MEB Boy

03-10-2001, 07:38 PM	#7 (permalink)
fil Advanced Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Canada Posts: 1,357 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ernesto Hoost does not have a chin good enough to last with a high level pro boxer. I saw a clip of him beeing brutaly KOed by Branco Cikatic early in his K1 career. He has managed to overcome that loss and become a champion similar to Peter Aerts that had KO losses. If a boxer gets KOed like Ernesto did rarely do they manage to overcome the loss and become champions (John Ruiz did it though). You can teach how to defend against kicks/knees but you cant teach a chin... Top level boxers have a high level tolerance to punishment and have cardio level to go 10 or 12 rounds. K1 fights are 3 to 5 rounds only and still alot of matches do not go the time limit. I have no idea how long regular muay Thai matches are. Other kickboxers like Maurice Smith tried boxing when he was still young back in 1990 and I know he was KOed twice as a pro boxer. Usually the best athletes will go where the money is and that is boxing. Anyway I dont like this type of debate, whether an athlete is a boxer, kickboxer or mixed martial athlete they should stick with their own sport. MEB Boy, Pedro Rizzo already faught once in K1 years ago against I beleive it was Thompson a British Kickboxer and he was cut up pretty bad and lost by referee stopage (TKO). Any MMA fighter would likly be cannon fodder for K1 veterans like Hoost and Aerts.

03-10-2001, 07:40 PM	#8 (permalink)
PassiveGuy Novice Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: central GA Posts: 141 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hoost and Aerst definetly, there good enough boxers to not get rocked bad by tysons power punches , if they had good strategy they would KO him easy: keep him back with the teep and work his legs till he drops his hands and slam him with a high round. Thai fighters have enough weapons to drop any boxer (of the same relative level) IMO.

03-10-2001, 09:44 PM	#10 (permalink)
festiva Novice Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 42 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	i agree with keithws exeptions aside leg kickers get knocked out by punchers ..it has something to do with the fact that when you kick you temporarily stop moving because you post on one leg..so the puncher knows where you will be ...devastating..kickboxers have NEVER fared well against boxers not one of you will come up with tournaments where this has happened as a general rule..... ive watched several hundred hours of nhb fights and have never seen it maybe a few exceptions but not the rule tyson today would kill these guys on the stand up nevermind in his prime ...PLEASE WATCH THE TAPES BEFORE YOU MAKE JUDGEMENTS ...LOTS OF TAPES...

03-11-2001, 07:38 AM	#12 (permalink)
bobby_steeles Advanced Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: in front of my computer Posts: 650 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	mike tyson would slap the black off of ernesto hoost. and then bite him.

03-12-2001, 12:20 AM	#14 (permalink)
Ravenman Novice Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: New Orleans Posts: 77 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	In a kickboxing or muay thai rules fight, the top boxers would be the winners without throwing a single kick. __________________ To have more, you must first become more.

03-12-2001, 01:07 AM	#15 (permalink)
Ronin Guest Posts: n/a	What tapes? I have heard many rumors of "boxer vs. kickboxer" competitions, but never seen any. I think a boxer with a decent leg-check could KO many kickboxers. But the Hoost/Vovchanchin fight shows what great kicker can do to a good puncher. Vov never had a chance to expose Hoost's chin. Obviously prime Tyson would have a better chance, but he would need to learn how to deal with the kicks. I think that Tyson has a better chance of KO'ing a kickboxer than he does of learning how to grapple. Tyson vs. Hoost would be even money, IMO.

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