Tuf 5

[bigred389]

Missed Thursday and had to catch the rerun last night.

Anybody else following this season? I think it was a bit overhyped, but it's definitely got good fights.

Joe Lauzon put Geraghty in a world of hurt. It was nice to see another quality fighter put on display, after the Ruediger vs Cake fiasco of last week, and the terrible Melendez vs Wang fight.

[DickHardman]

the fighters are absolutely terrible.

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

Lauzon, Wiman, and Manny are the best fighters there.

[lorenzodamarith]

hello,

they are certainly a strange lot. not sure (from a ratings/ticket sale standpoint) how wise it is to show the world that this is how fighters behave.

philosophically, this skull is opposed to the drama aspect of the ultimate fighter. training seems to be what fighters and even fight fans want. the overall model of the show has missed the mark.

thoughts?

thanks.

[DickHardman]

most of these fighters are terrible. the last show, that one guy who had a number of fights and was supposedly a "kickboxer" got beaten by a guy who had never even had a single fight lol. that fight was so terrible, neither guy knew how to finish the other off. i know for a fact i could do better than some of these guys. that andy wang guy was so weaksauce, completely disrespecting bj pen and not listening to a word of his advice. he went out there and swung like a complete noob and then weeped like a girl after he lost. and then ther was that disgusting excuse for a fighter who couldnt make weight despite all the colon crushing enimas he had to give himself. i couldnt even believe bj pen put up with that shit, i cant believe he just didnt tell that guy to get the fck out of his sight. thats NOT the way you act when you are given the privilege of training under someone who normally charges $5,000 an hour for his services. guy laying on the floor crying like a baby, refusing to listen to his coach. WTF???? dude, im not gonna waste anymore time watching that show until the end when bj runs through jenns.

[lorenzodamarith]

Originally Posted by DickHardman

most of these fighters are terrible. the last show, that one guy who had a number of fights and was supposedly a "kickboxer" got beaten by a guy who had never even had a single fight lol. that fight was so terrible, neither guy knew how to finish the other off. i know for a fact i could do better than some of these guys. that andy wang guy was so weaksauce, completely disrespecting bj pen and not listening to a word of his advice. he went out there and swung like a complete noob and then weeped like a girl after he lost. and then ther was that disgusting excuse for a fighter who couldnt make weight despite all the colon crushing enimas he had to give himself. i couldnt even believe bj pen put up with that shit, i cant believe he just didnt tell that guy to get the fck out of his sight. thats NOT the way you act when you are given the privilege of training under someone who normally charges $5,000 an hour for his services. guy laying on the floor crying like a baby, refusing to listen to his coach. WTF???? dude, im not gonna waste anymore time watching that show until the end when bj runs through jenns.

hello,

agreed. you know, there are plenty of people all over the place that if you told them "5 grand if you knock this fool out or make him tap"... would absolutely WRECK thier opponents.... it should be exciting. such an incentive. why don't these "fighters" let it all hang out and GO FOR IT?!?!?

thanks.

[DickHardman]

Originally Posted by lorenzodamarith

hello,

agreed. you know, there are plenty of people all over the place that if you told them "5 grand if you knock this fool out or make him tap"... would absolutely WRECK thier opponents.... it should be exciting. such an incentive. why don't these "fighters" let it all hang out and GO FOR IT?!?!?

thanks.

they are inexperienced, timid fighters. they are still afriad of getting hit. notice, the ones who have done best were the guys who str8 up brought it the opponents and finished them decisively like the one guy one pens team that had fought pulver and knocked him out before. that guys a fighter. the dudes who run away from every punch thrown at them and just pick at eachother are noobs. they do not now how to effectively close in on the opponent and finish him.

as dana said they fight not to lose, not fight to win. there is a big difference.

[lorenzodamarith]

hello,

well, instructors the world are over are partially to blame. scoring systems are partially to blame.

everyone wants to be in this sport, so instructors train people along these lines. and in any combative sport with scoring systems that can go to decision, it stimulates the production of fighters who fight to get the decision.

still, if you are being paid to fight... then fight. actually, upon reflection, the way danawhite selected the fighters this time around really bit it hard.

it was a grappling tournament. his stated reason is that grappling is the necessary skill and takes longer to develop. "we can teach them striking". he should have evaluated both grapping and striking. he looked for guys that are "good on the ground". he wasn't looking for fighters.

perhaps selecting an alternate or two might prevent the quest for enimas on camera.... if someone shows up more than 5 pounds over... drop 'em.

tirade over.

thanks.

[bigred389]

Originally Posted by lorenzodamarith

hello,

well, instructors the world are over are partially to blame. scoring systems are partially to blame.

everyone wants to be in this sport, so instructors train people along these lines. and in any combative sport with scoring systems that can go to decision, it stimulates the production of fighters who fight to get the decision.

still, if you are being paid to fight... then fight. actually, upon reflection, the way danawhite selected the fighters this time around really bit it hard.

it was a grappling tournament. his stated reason is that grappling is the necessary skill and takes longer to develop. "we can teach them striking". he should have evaluated both grapping and striking. he looked for guys that are "good on the ground". he wasn't looking for fighters.

perhaps selecting an alternate or two might prevent the quest for enimas on camera.... if someone shows up more than 5 pounds over... drop 'em.

tirade over.

thanks.

You have got to be joking.

And who says they had a grappling tournament for the selection? If that was the case, Emerson and Melendez probably wouldn't have made it through the door.

[bigred389]

Originally Posted by DickHardman

they are inexperienced, timid fighters. they are still afriad of getting hit. notice, the ones who have done best were the guys who str8 up brought it the opponents and finished them decisively like the one guy one pens team that had fought pulver and knocked him out before. that guys a fighter. the dudes who run away from every punch thrown at them and just pick at eachother are noobs. they do not now how to effectively close in on the opponent and finish him.

as dana said they fight not to lose, not fight to win. there is a big difference.

Umm...that "kickboxing" guy you referred to has gone against Pulver, Mishima, and Guillard, and lost those fights by decision. Hardly "inexperienced."

Diaz, Gamburyan, and Miller all dominated their fights. They had easy fights, but they were hardly timid.

[DickHardman]

Originally Posted by bigred389

Umm...that "kickboxing" guy you referred to has gone against Pulver, Mishima, and Guillard, and lost those fights by decision. Hardly "inexperienced."

that makes him look even worse, cause he lost to a guy who hadnt even had a single fight.

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

Like i said, there's only a few actually good fighters on the show. The rest were picked because theyre either crazy in front of the camera, they have connections to fighters already in the UFC since they lost to them, or they have some cool appeal like Corey Hill's height.

I thought Nate Diaz would be good but he's weaksauce too. I dont think he's capable of knocking anyone out on the feet, his punching is so weak, just like his brothers. His ground and pound is pitiful too.


UFC/Zuffa needs to scratch out the idea of TUF. They need to cut out all the reality bullshit. Do something like "24/7" on HBO sports.

Add a narrator. Show the fighter's training, talk more about their martial arts/combat sports background and show FIGHTS!!! And market it like a sports show, not some tough man competition with that stupid voice in the background that says, "next time on the ultimate fighterrrr".

And stop trying to sell the UFC brand so god damn much!!! Every single UFC event, its like all you here is UFC, ultimate fighting, UFC, UFC warriors, im sick of it. Call it Mixed Martial Arts god dammit.

[J-Luck]

Originally Posted by 7r14ngL3Ch0k3

Like i said, there's only a few actually good fighters on the show. The rest were picked because theyre either crazy in front of the camera, they have connections to fighters already in the UFC since they lost to them, or they have some cool appeal like Corey Hill's height.

I thought Nate Diaz would be good but he's weaksauce too. I dont think he's capable of knocking anyone out on the feet, his punching is so weak, just like his brothers. His ground and pound is pitiful too.


UFC/Zuffa needs to scratch out the idea of TUF. They need to cut out all the reality bullshit. Do something like "24/7" on HBO sports.

Add a narrator. Show the fighter's training, talk more about their martial arts/combat sports background and show FIGHTS!!! And market it like a sports show, not some tough man competition with that stupid voice in the background that says, "next time on the ultimate fighterrrr".

And stop trying to sell the UFC brand so god damn much!!! Every single UFC event, its like all you here is UFC, ultimate fighting, UFC, UFC warriors, im sick of it. Call it Mixed Martial Arts god dammit.

Nicks punching is def not weak.

Wait, you're suggesting a business stop marketining itself in the best way it sees fit? Now, don't get me wrong, I agree with your overall point. But that's simply not how life works.

[bigred389]

Originally Posted by 7r14ngL3Ch0k3

Like i said, there's only a few actually good fighters on the show. The rest were picked because theyre either crazy in front of the camera, they have connections to fighters already in the UFC since they lost to them, or they have some cool appeal like Corey Hill's height.

I thought Nate Diaz would be good but he's weaksauce too. I dont think he's capable of knocking anyone out on the feet, his punching is so weak, just like his brothers. His ground and pound is pitiful too.


UFC/Zuffa needs to scratch out the idea of TUF. They need to cut out all the reality bullshit. Do something like "24/7" on HBO sports.

Add a narrator. Show the fighter's training, talk more about their martial arts/combat sports background and show FIGHTS!!! And market it like a sports show, not some tough man competition with that stupid voice in the background that says, "next time on the ultimate fighterrrr".

And stop trying to sell the UFC brand so god damn much!!! Every single UFC event, its like all you here is UFC, ultimate fighting, UFC, UFC warriors, im sick of it. Call it Mixed Martial Arts god dammit.

Well it's hard to break into the UFC/Pride bigshow, and it's not always about skill...it's about connections and timing.
I mean, Lauzon was brought it originally to stand up to Pulver? Of course not...he was supposed to be fresh meat. And ALL of these guys(with the exception of Corey Hill) have had fights in smaller regional organizations, some holding various titles in their respective organizations.

The show is about prospects, building future long term stars. That's why so many of the guys are ~23.
They could bring in more experienced guys, but that doesn't really fit the goal of the show.

And I agree with J-Luck, the "Ultimate Fighting" problem has more to do with people who don't follow the sport...the pros and fans all call it MMA.
Some people use NBA interchangably with basketball. Seeing as how Zuffa bought Pride...I really don't have as much of a problem with it as I used to.

[lorenzodamarith]

Originally Posted by bigred389

You have got to be joking.

And who says they had a grappling tournament for the selection? If that was the case, Emerson and Melendez probably wouldn't have made it through the door.

hello,

no not joking... danawhite himself said that this time around they are looking for guys that are good on the ground. whether guys had good striking or not was secondary "we can teach the standup here". this time was all about the grappling.

of course, under any of these circumstances, you would be limited to those that show up and have to make your selection from them.

maybe, they should have a qualifier series to get invited to the show, sort of like that adcc does. it might attract more international talent as well.

thanks.