beware of this technique....

[DickHardman]

theres a guy in my jiu jitsu class who just had his arm completely destroyed over the weekend by a bicep slicer in a tourny. the move is illegal in most tournaments, but the guy used it anyway the guys arm is completely ruined. i think they said it was broken and would require multiple plates in addition to the torn muscle. the guy is in surgery right now. you grapplers becareful with this move. its like the heel hook, you dont realize how much damage has been done until its too late.

[Tant01]

Originally Posted by DickHardman

theres a guy in my jiu jitsu class who just had his arm completely destroyed over the weekend by a bicep slicer in a tourny. the move is illegal in most tournaments, but the guy used it anyway the guys arm is completely ruined. i think they said it was broken and would require multiple plates in addition to the torn muscle. the guy is in surgery right now. you grapplers becareful with this move. its like the heel hook, you dont realize how much damage has been done until its too late.

This kind of thing is exactly why Jujutsu had such a notorious reputation in Japan 130 years ago...

[DickHardman]

another thing id like to mention is that our instructor had a talk with us about this incident. he told us that competing can open you up to some negative things as well as positive things. he said the positives outweigh the negatives, however competing can be dangerous and injuries arent that uncommon. this lead me to ask him later on if he felt that competing is necessary to fully understand and be capable with the art, and he told no this was not the case at all. i was kind of surprised to hear that, coming from a guy who did nothing but compete in judo and jiu jitsu tournaments his whole life. you can still be a good and proficient martial artist without competing.

[Hardball]

What were the rules of the tourney? Can you describe what was done to your friend?

[DickHardman]

Originally Posted by Hardball

What were the rules of the tourney? Can you describe what was done to your friend?

this here was the exact move i believe.......im not sure about all the rules, but it was mentioned that this technique is usually banned from tournaments.

YouTube - Spider Guard Bicep Slicer

[DickHardman]

you basically put one of your bones(arm or leg) in the crook of his arm and then bend his arm towards his body to crush his bicep.

[Tant01]

Originally Posted by DickHardman

you basically put one of your bones(arm or leg) in the crook of his arm and then bend his arm towards his body to crush his bicep.

There are many versions of this udegarami. I like it myself but would never apply it with INTENT to destroy a fellow competitor! That's just pure malice and ego showing up where it does not belong...

http://www.mma-training.com/bicep-slicer.html

[Hardball]

Originally Posted by Tant01

There are many versions of this udegarami. I like it myself but would never apply it with INTENT to destroy a fellow competitor! That's just pure malice and ego showing up where it does not belong...

http://www.mma-training.com/bicep-slicer.html

I can't see the vid until later; which version is the culprit?

[aseepish]

Yep, that's one where you tap early.

[Shoot]

That's too bad. This has always been my gripe with BJJ. People get so competative that they end up hurting others and themselves. I used to grapple with people just in class who would try anything to "win."

[Hardball]

That doesn't look like an ude garami, it looks more like an ude gatame.

[ledfut]

that's horrible. it always sucks to hear when someone gets injured.

[jiuelie]

Originally Posted by Tant01

. I like it myself but would never apply it with INTENT to destroy a fellow competitor! That's just pure malice and ego showing up where it does not belong...

true. I've done it several times, and gotten even more.
Sure, it hurst like hell, but the damage doesn;t usually go beyond a stretched or torn biceps, unless you do it on purpose.
Its like the kimura. Pull too fast and you could pop the guys shoulder, but you really have to want it to completely break it.

[Tant01]

Originally Posted by Hardball

That doesn't look like an ude garami, it looks more like an ude gatame.

Hmmm...

Don't quote ME here but the bicep crush is still a bent arm (destruction) hold. Udegatami is the straight (hyper extension) lock. Variations of the gatami can also use the fulcrum to smash muscles but with the arm straight?

I guess I'm asking HB, you're the ranked player here... (???)

Time for some homework, eh? I'll have to get back to you... I think they have different names if you use your legs to apply the compression or your arm(s)...

Darn it, there you go asking me something, showing everyone here I don't know crap again...

Oh well, at least I'm honest, right?

That's my story and I'm sticking to it...

LOL

[Tant01]

Originally Posted by jiuelie

true. I've done it several times, and gotten even more.
Sure, it hurst like hell, but the damage doesn;t usually go beyond a stretched or torn biceps, unless you do it on purpose.
Its like the kimura. Pull too fast and you could pop the guys shoulder, but you really have to want it to completely break it.

Usually, For me at least, a pain compliance hold is simply to dominate, it is also a good way to transition into a strangle so you can put them to sleep.

It's one thing to destroy the arm of a violent (armed) felon. (jujutsu) but to perform this technique in a SPORT arena is just BAD JUDO.

If you can't give your OPPONENT time to submit it's very UNSPORTSMAN like conduct (in my opinion).

A problem of ego.

I have no issues with the holds themselves, you know? Or the guys that use them. It's a good technique but it should be used as gently as possible in the (friendly) fight. No sense in sending the fellow competitor to the hospital for reconstruction surgery. That's just MEAN. Or careless. (read "stupid")

To learn is one thing, to do is another thing. I tell folks the only difference between submission and destruction is a few pounds of torque, right?

Play nice