Arum not ultimate fight fan

[Uke]

Arum not ultimate fight fan By Doug Krikorian, Sports columnist 06-02-07



Bob Arum is on the line from Las Vegas, and the venerable promoter of boxing matches actually acknowledges the rise of a competing mixed martial arts organization called Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) that has gained widespread popularity among the 18 to 34 set.

"Their presentation and promotion is very good and they spend millions and millions of dollars on advertising," he says.

And then comes the inevitable punch line from Arum.

"And their product stinks," he says. "It's just awful. Most of their participants come from wrestling, or karate backgrounds, and are just terrible boxers.

"The guys who promote this stuff are able to spend so much money on advertising because they don't pay their fighters anything. Here they had a big pay-per-view show last week in which they had more than a million buys and took in around 20 million dollars. And I doubt they spent more than a million dollars on all the participants on the program.

"They have a complete monopoly, and have choked off all the competition, and their fighters have to take what they give them. In boxing, we have a totally different model, different pay scale. We give 90 percent of the money from a promotion to the fighters, while those in the other sport get about 10 percent. The promoters keep all the money for themselves."

Bob Arum didn't mention names, but, obviously, he was referring to Dana White, the UFC president who was heavily involved in the recent purchase of his company's major rival, PRIDE, for $70 million.

White has been widely quoted as saying that boxing is nearing its extinction, and that his sport is succeeding it in the public's consciousness.

Naturally, Arum disagrees, but does concede that boxing could use a makeover.

"What's killing boxing are the so-called businessmen fighters who leave the ring looking the same way as they did when they entered it," says Arum. "Just look at the recent Floyd Mayweather-Oscar De La Hoya fight.

"All that publicity about how their fight was going to save boxing, and what happened? They didn't fight. They pranced around the ring for 12 rounds not taking any chances. That wasn't a fight. That was a ballet.

"Boxing needs fighters who fight, not guys like Mayweather and De La Hoya and Winky Wright who are more concerned about pay days and avoiding punches."

Of course, it must be pointed out that Bob Arum might be expressing a slightly different view of Messrs. Mayweather and De La Hoya had both not departed his Top Rank firm in recent years, thereby cutting him out of their lucrative showdown that generated immense pay per view profits.

But the Mayweather-De La Hoya fight was a tame affair that didn't exactly inspire the passions of those who observed it.

"What you need to bring fans back to boxing are fighters with a search-and- destroy attitude, fighters like Miguel Cotto and and Kelly Pavlik," says Arum, both of whom, by the sheerest coincidence, fight for Arum.

In fact, Cotto will be defending his WBA welterweight title next Saturday against Zab Judah at Madison Square Garden before an expected sellout crowd, while Pavlik is a 6-2 undefeated (31-0, 28 KOs) Youngstown, Ohio, native who Arum would like to match against middleweight champion Jermain Taylor.

Bob Arum admits that the UFC has staged its shows in a far more entertaining manner than boxing.

"Our presentation has sucked," he says. "For 30 years now, we've become like a studio sport because of the insistence of the TV networks like HBO and Showtime and ESPN not to play loud music between rounds because it would interfere with the priceless words being uttered by their announcers.

"Can you imagine Notre Dame banning its band from playing its fight song because it was interfering with the radio and TV announcers at its home games?

"Well, at the Manny Pacquiao fight in April in San Antonio against Jorge Solis we did all the pyrotechnics and played continuous music and the energy you could feel from the crowd was palpable.

"I spoke to Ross Greenburg (HBO president) about us going with loud music between rounds at the Cotto- Judah fight, and he was amenable to it. And we're also not going to have 20-minute waits between bouts that so often suck the energy out of a crowd. We're going to have four preliminary fights, one after another.

"It's going to be wild at the Garden. There will be pyrotechnics and hip-hop music being played as well as salsa music. It'll give a more dynamic aura to the atmosphere."

Bob Arum sniffs when you ask him how a world class boxer would fare against a UFC champion.

"You gotta be kidding me!" he says. "We'd fight them on land, we'd fight them on the sea, we'd fight them in the air, we'd fight them anyplace. They use four-ounce gloves. Can you imagine what would happen if you allow our top guys to use four-ounce gloves? It would be a massacre.

"Their guys can't take a punch. They're wrestlers not accustomed to getting hit on the chin. Look what happened last week when their so-called champion (Chuck Liddell) got knocked out in less than a round. And that by a guy who can't even box well.

"There is no doubt we have a better product. We just have to present it better. And our top fighters have to be committed to fighting in an entertaining manner."

And then Bob Arum, ever the promoter, went on and on and on about the virtues of Miguel Cotto, and how all his fights turn into brawls and, please boxing fans, he added, don't forget to pay the $44.95 tab to watch Cotto display his machismo against Zab Judah next Saturday night.

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

Arum is in denial.

[J-Luck]

Originally Posted by 7r14ngL3Ch0k3

Arum is in denial.

Somewhat.

He's correct about the money issues in MMA. The fighters recieve no where near what they deserve. But that's been a huge plague on MMA for years. It's really attrocious.

Ummmm, where the hell does he get off saying that they're just wrestlers and karate guys. I guess he's very ignorant to MMA. Plus, he's suggesting the superiority of boxers over everyone else, as if it's common knowledge(I HATE THE ARROGANCE).

While he's correct in suggesting that if top boxers went into MMA, there would be alot of them winning, there would also be MORE of them losing. And that's something I'm willing to bet(and win) a great deal of money on.

[Uke]

Originally Posted by J-Luck

While he's correct in suggesting that if top boxers went into MMA, there would be alot of them winning, there would also be MORE of them losing. And that's something I'm willing to bet(and win) a great deal of money on.

They might lose if they used strictly boxing, but I don't think that they are that ignorant.

Boxers are masters of their range in most cases, and that fits the criteria of being a dominant champion if you know how MMA is set up. Nearly every dominant champion in NHB is a master of ONE range, with some extra training added in to avoid their weak range.

Also, boxers are widely recognized as the greatest athletes. Their work ethic and training is beyond anything found in other sports. I don't think anyone would argue that fact. Other athletes work hard too, but that isn't the point. Elite boxing conditioning is on another level. This fact gives elite boxers an edge because they are simply in better shape and can fight for longer periods at a higher work rate.

If elite pro boxers learned takedown defense and submission escapes, the world of MMA would be turned upside down. Especially if the boxers who are currently on top entered NHB events and not just retired boxers with nothing to lose.

[jubaji]

Originally Posted by pUke

Also, boxers are widely recognized as the greatest athletes. Their work ethic and training is beyond anything found in other sports. I don't think anyone would argue that fact.

I think a lot of people would argue with that.

[jubaji]

Originally Posted by Uke

If elite pro boxers learned takedown defense and submission escapes, the world of MMA would be turned upside down.

Well, there's a big "if."

[Uke]

Originally Posted by jubaji

I think a lot of people would argue with that.

A lot of people would, but alas you didn't. Is there any wonder why?

[jubaji]

Originally Posted by pUke

A lot of people would, but alas you didn't. Is there any wonder why?

I guess you missed the point again, moron.

[Uke]

Originally Posted by jubaji

Well, there's a big "if."

There's not too much of an "if" to it. The fact that strikers like Crocop and Mark Hunt could come in and dominate MMA as easily as they have makes the argument for me.

Mark Hunt isn't an elite boxer, but he's primarily a puncher and he's run through MMA a lot easier than people like you would have predicted with your "if's".

Crocop is one dimensional in that his primary weapon is his kicks. and only his left kick at that. Yet, he is among the elite fighters in MMA despite grappling being allowed.

Wanderlei Silva is a thaiboxer first and foremost, but his school began teaching BJJ for the same reason that I'm suggesting boxers learn it. We see how well he's been able to do.

As I said, with some solid lowkicking and takedown defense, with some time learning submission and choke reversals, elite boxers would do a lot better than any one like you could allow yourself to believe. And with 4 ounce gloves and elite boxer would eat the majority of MMA fighters alive while on their feet.

[Uke]

Originally Posted by jubaji

I guess you missed the point again, moron.

Jubaji ... you don't have any points. And its hilarious to think that you were ever under the impression that you ever did.

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

Originally Posted by Uke

Mark Hunt isn't an elite boxer, but he's primarily a puncher and he's run through MMA a lot easier than people like you would have predicted with your "if's".

Wanderlei Silva is a thaiboxer first and foremost, but his school began teaching BJJ for the same reason that I'm suggesting boxers learn it. We see how well he's been able to do.

As I said, with some solid lowkicking and takedown defense, with some time learning submission and choke reversals, elite boxers would do a lot better than any one like you could allow yourself to believe. And with 4 ounce gloves and elite boxer would eat the majority of MMA fighters alive while on their feet.

Yet Mark Hunt has been defeated by all the grapplers he's fought.

Aside from that, i'd like to see Kermit Cintron fight a ufc fighter. He supposedly was a college wrestler too so he thinks he'd beat UFC fighters at their own game.

[jubaji]

Originally Posted by pUke

There's not too much of an "if" to it. The fact that strikers like Crocop and Mark Hunt could come in and dominate MMA as easily as they have makes the argument for me.

Mark Hunt isn't an elite boxer, but he's primarily a puncher and he's run through MMA a lot easier than people like you would have predicted with your "if's".

Crocop is one dimensional in that his primary weapon is his kicks. and only his left kick at that. Yet, he is among the elite fighters in MMA despite grappling being allowed. .

What "predictions" have I made, shit for brains? Your poor examples aside, where are the hordes of boxers not quite good enough to make it in the pros turning to MMA for some 'easy' money? Maybe "some solid lowkicking and takedown defense, with some time learning submission and choke reversals" is easier said (by creatures like you who just shoot off your mouth) than done? Maybe pure boxing skills don't translate as directly to a MMA format as you want to believe?

Maybe you are just going to spend the next 10 pages repeating yourself and claiming to have 'already told everyone the truth'?

Bullshit shields at maximum!

[jubaji]

Originally Posted by pUke

Jubaji ... you don't have any points.

Well, since you're so shit-eatin' stupid that you keep missing them, I guess you'd have trouble recognizing them.

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

Originally Posted by jubaji

What "predictions" have I made, shit for brains? Your poor examples aside, where are the hordes of boxers not quite good enough to make it in the pros turning to MMA for some 'easy' money? Maybe "some solid lowkicking and takedown defense, with some time learning submission and choke reversals" is easier said (by creatures like you who just shoot off your mouth) than done? Maybe pure boxing skills don't translate as directly to a MMA format as you want to believe?

Maybe you are just going to spend the next 10 pages repeating yourself and claiming to have 'already told everyone the truth'?

Bullshit shields at maximum!

excellent response

[jubaji]

Originally Posted by pUke

Also, boxers are widely recognized as the greatest athletes. Their work ethic and training is beyond anything found in other sports. I don't think anyone would argue that fact. Other athletes work hard too, but that isn't the point. Elite boxing conditioning is on another level. This fact gives elite boxers an edge because they are simply in better shape and can fight for longer periods at a higher work rate.

See, numbskulls like pUke have somehow gotten it into their pea brains that their subjective opinions have the power to shape reality. There are quite a number of sports that would find a large number of people 'claiming' that they have the "greatest athletes," but its a silly question that will obviously never be settled (except in the 'minds' of agenda-drones like pUke).

Take a highly trained boxer (just a boxer) and put him in a wrestling match and, if the wrestler decided to let the match go on instead of ending it right away, that boxer would gas very quickly.

Take a highly trained wrestler (just a wrestler) and put him in a boxing match and, if the boxer decided to let the match go on instead of ending it right away, that wrestler would gas very quickly.

We could come up with any number of other examples like this.

Why? Because different sports involve different kinds of conditioning and at the higher levels this becomes more and more specialized. There's 'wrestling shape' and there's 'boxing shape' and they are not the same.

If the boxer and the wrestler were to meet on neutral territory then it would be a matter of who is better at his focus and who does what first (obviously).

Either one of them would of course be more than prepared to very easily smack down some loud-mouth out of shape tool who thinks that theorizing about things he's never actually done is somehow superior to skills and experience gained over thousands and thousands of hours of real training and testing against fully resisting opponents.

Even if our boxer and wrestler were not in 'world class' shape, they need only be in better shape than said tool who has talked himself into believing that being well trained and conditioned is unimportant to humiliate him effortlessly. Hell, even if they were in equal condition, the fact that theory-boy would be relying on 'imagination' vs. experience would make the outcome all but inevitable in the great majority of cases.

Finally, both our well-conditioned boxer and wrestler would need to adjust their conditioning if they were preparing to excell in MMA, because that too is a different context.


Of course.