The Ultimate in Martial Arts

Alan · 03-16-2001, 07:09 AM

We all know about the Gracie/ Kimura challenges, and the Gracie history of challenging other styles.... So why didn't they ever challenge Mas Oyama? In his prime oyama must have had quite a reputation.... I know nowadays certaian people say he wasn't all he was cracked up to be but still, Oyama apparently took up all challenges and fought 300 matches, so why didn't the Gracies go to take him out? Does anyone know if a challenge was issued?

Mr. Miyagi · 03-17-2001, 06:59 PM

Isn't Mas much older and of a different generation? The Gracies would have had no problem taking Mas to the canvas and beating the crap out of him.

Chopstix · 03-18-2001, 12:43 AM

i believe mas oyama was doing the challenge match thing around the 50s and 60s..
helio could have challenged him. mas was 220 lbs of pure power, helio has great skill, but mas is just a power house. im not sure many people could have taken him down..
he was very, very hardcore..

combat judo · 03-18-2001, 01:06 AM

The Gracies know that it takes only one punch to finish the fight if they challenged Oyama. BTW, there are No Gracies that can compare to Oyama when in comes in brute strength.

Mas Oyama = Kyokushin Karate founder 10th dan
Mas Oyama = Judo 4th dan
Mas Oyama = BRUTE strength, POWER + no fear.

Ever wonder why they never challenge him?

True Technique · 03-18-2001, 01:45 AM

"What is this Bash Gracie Day or something?"

---The Master---

Mr. Miyagi · 03-18-2001, 01:50 AM

Mas= 220 lbs. of ignorance of grappling
Sorry guys, but Helio or Carlson would have owned his ass. Oyama's legacy of students are equally ignorant.

combat judo · 03-18-2001, 02:09 AM

Ignorance? Yep! Just like you.

Chopstix · 03-18-2001, 02:34 AM

i wouldnt go so far as saying he was ignorant of grappling.. he is from japan, and he trained with and fought many judoka.. you know, from judo, the stuff bjj came from.

Martial Artist · 03-18-2001, 10:06 AM

Judo and BJJ are not the same!

YeLLa-TiGeR · 03-18-2001, 10:29 AM

Helio would have won. Personally I rather be facing Oyama than Ken Shamrock.

Chopstix · 03-18-2001, 11:16 AM

i said the martial art bjj derived from.. i never said it was the same

Karlinhos · 03-18-2001, 11:46 AM

choppie... both were derived from japanese jiu-jitsu...

maeda was a JJJ master who taught carlos gracie. carlos taught helio, etc.

judo is the competitive and "safe" form of JJJ, developed by jigoro kano.

DIRE WOLF · 03-18-2001, 12:01 PM

Who cares who would of won it did not happen so we cant speculate who would of won. Oyama was he the guy who killed bulls with knife hand strikes?

MMA · 03-18-2001, 03:55 PM

Mas Oyama didn't kill bulls, but he did use knife hand strikes to cut off their horns. Yes, he trained very hardcore, and was extremely dedicated to the perfection of his art. However, when he won the 300 matches, remember he fought his own students and he fought them several times. Fighting someone of a different style is very confusing, particularly like BJJ when it first came out on the scene. No one knew much about it, and its concepts. It's like we all saw in the first few UFC's, when strikers were completely ignorant to the concepts of ground fighting. Even strikers versus strikers was often a cumbersome sight to watch. As far as Judo goes, a solely Judo practicioner against a BJJ practicioner gets beaten pretty quick. Because of the competitive aspect of Judo, and the changing of its techniques from a martial aspect into a competitive aspect, a lot was lost by the transition of it.

MMA · 03-18-2001, 04:02 PM

Mas Oyama didn't kill bulls, but he did use knife hand strikes to cut off their horns. Yes, he trained very hardcore, and was extremely dedicated to the perfection of his art. However, when he won the 300 matches, remember he fought his own students and he fought them several times. Fighting someone of a different style is very confusing, particularly like BJJ when it first came out on the scene. No one knew much about it, and its concepts. It's like we all saw in the first few UFC's, when strikers were completely ignorant to the concepts of ground fighting. Even strikers versus strikers was often a cumbersome sight to watch. As far as Judo goes, a solely Judo practicioner against a BJJ practicioner gets beaten pretty quick. Because of the competitive aspect of Judo, and the changing of its techniques from a martial aspect into a competitive aspect, a lot was lost by the transition of it.

03-18-2001, 02:34 AM	#8 (permalink)
Chopstix Novice Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 103 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	i wouldnt go so far as saying he was ignorant of grappling.. he is from japan, and he trained with and fought many judoka.. you know, from judo, the stuff bjj came from. Last edited by Chopstix; 03-18-2001 at 11:17 AM.

03-18-2001, 10:06 AM	#9 (permalink)
Martial Artist Advanced Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Orange, Texas Posts: 536 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Judo and BJJ are not the same! __________________ "Kerr should sparr Mike Tyson because they have talked before on the phone" Tape Lord

03-18-2001, 10:29 AM	#10 (permalink)
YeLLa-TiGeR Registered User Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Boston Posts: 1,148 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Helio would have won. Personally I rather be facing Oyama than Ken Shamrock. __________________ "Nemo me impune lacssit"

03-18-2001, 11:46 AM	#12 (permalink)
Karlinhos Advanced Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 650 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	choppie... both were derived from japanese jiu-jitsu... maeda was a JJJ master who taught carlos gracie. carlos taught helio, etc. judo is the competitive and "safe" form of JJJ, developed by jigoro kano. __________________ www.grappletv.com - Accept the ORIGINATORS, not the DUPLICATORS...!!!

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03-16-2001, 07:09 AM	#1 (permalink)
Alan Novice Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: England Posts: 29 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	We all know about the Gracie/ Kimura challenges, and the Gracie history of challenging other styles.... So why didn't they ever challenge Mas Oyama? In his prime oyama must have had quite a reputation.... I know nowadays certaian people say he wasn't all he was cracked up to be but still, Oyama apparently took up all challenges and fought 300 matches, so why didn't the Gracies go to take him out? Does anyone know if a challenge was issued?

03-17-2001, 06:59 PM	#2 (permalink)
Mr. Miyagi Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 758 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Isn't Mas much older and of a different generation? The Gracies would have had no problem taking Mas to the canvas and beating the crap out of him.

03-18-2001, 12:43 AM	#3 (permalink)
Chopstix Novice Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 103 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	i believe mas oyama was doing the challenge match thing around the 50s and 60s.. helio could have challenged him. mas was 220 lbs of pure power, helio has great skill, but mas is just a power house. im not sure many people could have taken him down.. he was very, very hardcore..

03-18-2001, 01:06 AM	#4 (permalink)
combat judo Novice Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	The Gracies know that it takes only one punch to finish the fight if they challenged Oyama. BTW, there are No Gracies that can compare to Oyama when in comes in brute strength. Mas Oyama = Kyokushin Karate founder 10th dan Mas Oyama = Judo 4th dan Mas Oyama = BRUTE strength, POWER + no fear. Ever wonder why they never challenge him?

03-18-2001, 01:45 AM	#5 (permalink)
True Technique Novice Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 57 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	"What is this Bash Gracie Day or something?" ---The Master---

03-18-2001, 01:50 AM	#6 (permalink)
Mr. Miyagi Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 758 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mas= 220 lbs. of ignorance of grappling Sorry guys, but Helio or Carlson would have owned his ass. Oyama's legacy of students are equally ignorant.

03-18-2001, 02:09 AM	#7 (permalink)
combat judo Novice Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ignorance? Yep! Just like you.

03-18-2001, 11:16 AM	#11 (permalink)
Chopstix Novice Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 103 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	i said the martial art bjj derived from.. i never said it was the same

03-18-2001, 12:01 PM	#13 (permalink)
DIRE WOLF Novice Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Baltimore,Maryland Posts: 120 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Who cares who would of won it did not happen so we cant speculate who would of won. Oyama was he the guy who killed bulls with knife hand strikes?

03-18-2001, 03:55 PM	#14 (permalink)
MMA Novice Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: California Posts: 2 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mas Oyama didn't kill bulls, but he did use knife hand strikes to cut off their horns. Yes, he trained very hardcore, and was extremely dedicated to the perfection of his art. However, when he won the 300 matches, remember he fought his own students and he fought them several times. Fighting someone of a different style is very confusing, particularly like BJJ when it first came out on the scene. No one knew much about it, and its concepts. It's like we all saw in the first few UFC's, when strikers were completely ignorant to the concepts of ground fighting. Even strikers versus strikers was often a cumbersome sight to watch. As far as Judo goes, a solely Judo practicioner against a BJJ practicioner gets beaten pretty quick. Because of the competitive aspect of Judo, and the changing of its techniques from a martial aspect into a competitive aspect, a lot was lost by the transition of it.

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03-18-2001, 04:02 PM	#15 (permalink)
MMA Novice Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: California Posts: 2 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mas Oyama didn't kill bulls, but he did use knife hand strikes to cut off their horns. Yes, he trained very hardcore, and was extremely dedicated to the perfection of his art. However, when he won the 300 matches, remember he fought his own students and he fought them several times. Fighting someone of a different style is very confusing, particularly like BJJ when it first came out on the scene. No one knew much about it, and its concepts. It's like we all saw in the first few UFC's, when strikers were completely ignorant to the concepts of ground fighting. Even strikers versus strikers was often a cumbersome sight to watch. As far as Judo goes, a solely Judo practicioner against a BJJ practicioner gets beaten pretty quick. Because of the competitive aspect of Judo, and the changing of its techniques from a martial aspect into a competitive aspect, a lot was lost by the transition of it.