closed guard

[treelizard]

I'm training MMA at a new gym, and today after doing drills and rolling they had us practice getting past guard and I noticed that everyone was in open guard. I asked if they ever use closed guard in the gym and they said no. Obviously you can't do as many submissions in closed guard and can't move your hips but I always thought it was a fundamental for establishing and maintaining position as long as you move from open to closed to whatever other guards you're doing. But it's the first thing that came to mind for me when trying to figure out how to not let someone past guard. Are there other schools of thought on this? Opinions?

[DickHardman]

did they say they dont close the guard only for the drill, or they try not to close they guard at all times??? doesnt make sense to me why they wouldnt want to close guard, unless it was a restriction for drilling purposes only. there are plenty of attacks from closed guard. in fact, the closed guard should be 1 constant attack that just keeps changing shape until the opponent is finished, unless your aim is to get back up and away or you are looking to sweep. a lot of times you dont even have a choice, you will be forced to close it.

[treelizard]

They said they don't do closed guard at all. The only time they would ever do it would be to establish position and then they'd get in open as soon as possible. Whenever we're rolling they always tell me to do open which I'm not used to yet.

[Penance]

That's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard of.

[treelizard]

It makes sense, from the bottom, that you don't want to just keep position... you want to get a submission... and using your hips definitely helps. I started trying to remember if I've seen UFC fighters use closed guard and for how long and just couldn't remember. I'll have to specifically look for that next time I watch.

[Penance]

Guard is one of the most useful and powerful positions there is IMO. A good guard isn't just laying there on your back holding someone. It's active. You break the other guy down, you wear him out. Knowing when and how to give it up and go to other positions is part of having a good closed guard.

Never training it at all? That's insane. Even if you never use it, how will you know how to defend against it if you don't train it yourself? You're going to wind up getting stuck in a good guard for 3 or 4 minutes, and then when you're too gassed to move, they're going to make that last minute or two hell for you. Your only other alternative is to ground and pound your way out of it. Maybe you'll get lucky, or maybe you'll gas yourself or open yourself up to an attack.

The point of guard is to gas your opponent, to control them, and to make them do stupid things. I love when bigger guys try to explode or pound out of my guard, because then I sweep them, or arm bar them, or triangle them. I could care less how long I can hold them, or if I have to move to something else. All I care about is making them do something dumb or give something up.

[treelizard]

I didn't say they didn't train guard; I said they didn't train closed guard much.

[DickHardman]

closed guard is important inmop. i dont know what style or system you are training in, i do jiu jitsu(bjj) and the closed guard is very important in jiu jitsu and many attacks can be launched from it. not training it is a disadvantage, as people will be able to pass your guard easily. in fact one of the most important things is not letting your opponent pass your guard.

[Penance]

I know what you said. =) I assumed you'd understand I was talking about closed guard throughout my post. Replace "closed guard" everywhere you see guard

[treelizard]

anyone else?

[Bjjexpertise@be]

My guess is that your school is just trying to emphasize action in the guard rather than just cling on for dear life. I agree with DickHardman in that the closed guard is very important, especially for MMA where sometimes the person in your guard doesn't want to stay on the ground. If it makes you feel more comfortable, no matter what guard you're in, it's gotta be open in order for you to attack or submit anybody anyways .

[KickNit]

treelizard, what level of training are they at? Do they train on other guards (butterfly, spider, etc.)?

I must confess, I don't know why they wouldn't train on closed guard. Grappling is about dominance. I can't think of anything better for dominance training than closed guard.

[DickHardman]

If it makes you feel more comfortable, no matter what guard you're in, it's gotta be open in order for you to attack or submit anybody anyways .

thats not true. there are many attacks from the closed guard. wrist locks against your body, different lapel chokes. the triangle can be achieved from closed guard.you can go from guard str8 to omoplata if you are flexible. those are only a few. you can even take your opponents back from the guard without ever opening it.

[Hardball]

TL, it probably has something to do with the instructors background. Closed guard and BJJ are like apple pie and baseball. I'd guess somewhere in the instructors background is another system or systems and he decided to minimize the closed guard. It happens in every system, from dojo to dojo, dojang to dojang, and kwoon to kwoon. Same style different methodology.

[KickNit]

TL, it probably has something to do with the instructors background. Closed guard and BJJ are like apple pie and baseball. I'd guess somewhere in the instructors background is another system or systems and he decided to minimize the closed guard. It happens in every system, from dojo to dojo, dojang to dojang, and kwoon to kwoon. Same style different methodology.

That makes sense.