Fighter vs. Martial Artist

[Tant01]

Originally Posted by Michael Wright

If you are a person in the martial arts who creates, develops, expands, adapts and expresses your art - then you are a martial artist.

If you fight in the competetive arena of your art - then you are a fighter.

People who may be involved in martial arts but fit into neither category - are neither.

A student of the arts may not be an artist. He may play in the arena as the competitive athlete but is he a FIGHTER?

Eh! It makes little difference to me what a thing is called but most of the PLAYERS I've met from various combat(ive) sports were NOT fighters at all. Many were true gentlemen. Some were quite capable of defending themselves, others (and I refer to the majority of the PLAYERS I know) could not or would not "FIGHT" but rather avoid violence by flight if necessary...

[Michael Wright]

Sorry Tant, but I have absolutely no idea what your question or your point is?

[Tant01]

Originally Posted by Michael Wright

Sorry Tant, but I have absolutely no idea what your question or your point is?

That's okay... I have a short little attention span and type like three WPM.

The point (I think) was that combat sports do not necessarily make one a fighter. Boxing, Judo, Sambo, or modern MMA players may be capable of fighting but most are just sport competitors. Not necessarily "artists" either...

Not much of a point but what you call fighting I call playing. (if there are rules, then it's a game, eh?) LOL

[Tant01]

I should probably read the whole thread before posting because Mike already made the same (sort of) point...

[Knuckles&Knees]

Originally Posted by Tant01

That's okay... I have a short little attention span and type like three WPM.

The point (I think) was that combat sports do not necessarily make one a fighter. Boxing, Judo, Sambo, or modern MMA players may be capable of fighting but most are just sport competitors. Not necessarily "artists" either...

Not much of a point but what you call fighting I call playing. (if there are rules, then it's a game, eh?) LOL

Hey Tant,

For arguments sake, let me ask you, do you believe the majority of people on the street self-govern themselves according to unwritten rules, or in response to written laws, or even restrain their actions according to their conscience and human compassion?

Most people that fight on the streets do not attempt to maim or murder. You will find more people that attempt to maim than murder in most hand to hand street fights.

Why is that?

If no rules existed in an absolute sense could we presuppose the majority of fist fights might end in maiming or murder?

[kiddbjj]

hey

here's an example of something that happened to me recently...

Normally I train BJJ and have done for 4 years. I decided to do a class at a TMA school initially hoping to learn some breakfalls/rolls etc.

During the class we did one on one technique stuff and time and time again I utilised the BJJ ethos of taking the person down for subs or strikes which worked great BUT time and time again the instructor or other students would come up behind me and mock lay in the boot (kick me) or generally point out my lack of awareness for what was occuring around me...and they were absolutely right. Although I could control the one guy well I was totally sprawled out in side control, mount or knee ride but 100% focused on the guy under me and not what was going on around me.

I realised immediatley that my BJJ mindset would be incredibly dangerous in a public place or anywhere where others parties could intervene.

So the lesson for me was that although combat sports teach effective techniques and strategies for one on one they completely neglect strategy for weapons and multiples, which statistically ARE the most likely scenarios for street assault etc

[Tant01]

Originally Posted by Knuckles&Knees

Hey Tant,

For arguments sake, let me ask you, do you believe the majority of people on the street self-govern themselves according to unwritten rules, or in response to written laws, or even restrain their actions according to their conscience and human compassion?

Most people that fight on the streets do not attempt to maim or murder. You will find more people that attempt to maim than murder in most hand to hand street fights.

Why is that?

If no rules existed in an absolute sense could we presuppose the majority of fist fights might end in maiming or murder?

So much depends on intent. If it's criminal or intendrd to inflict serious trauma (or both) you are a victim or you choose to defend yourself, the "fight" is on. If it's a sanctioned event between athletes or for some entertainment venue I don't really think of it as a FIGHT...

That is all.

[Tant01]

Originally Posted by kiddbjj

hey

here's an example of something that happened to me recently...

Normally I train BJJ and have done for 4 years. I decided to do a class at a TMA school initially hoping to learn some breakfalls/rolls etc.

...Although I could control the one guy well I was ... 100% focused on the guy under me and not what was going on around me.

I realised immediatley that my BJJ mindset would be incredibly dangerous in a public place or anywhere where others parties could intervene.

So the lesson for me was that although combat sports teach effective techniques and strategies for one on one they completely neglect strategy for weapons and multiples, which statistically ARE the most likely scenarios for street assault etc

Good news and bad news, eh? The bad news is humans are top heavy and easy to tip over. The good news is about three pounds of it is your brain!

Thanks for sharing.

[bodhisattva]

Originally Posted by Michael Wright

Wait. Wait. You're the guy who has ignored every single question or challenge to qualify your arguments and contribute anything positive to this forum. Instead you run and hide, trolling around like a chicken shit undermining people's contributions and badly misrepresenting the beliefs of a genuine, evolutionary martial artist.

Are you going to stand up and call me out on anything I have said? Come on, bring it on? What have you actually got to say? Anything? No.

Way to go, Bodhi! We new you were a joke.

Um. Yeah. (shrug) So I ignore your challenges. Are you so important that I should pay attention to all of your challenges?

Run and hide? What does that even mean in terms of a web forum? Where am I hiding?? Behind the "main menu" or something?

Stand up and call you out? Why would I? I might comment on some of it - what my opinion is.. but the idea of "calling you out", again, is kind of weird to me in the context of a web forum. I log on to share my views. I don't like Kata, and I post that. I don't like TMA practiced as TMA, I post that.

Have I got anything to actually say? I don't know, over 300 posts worth of stuff. So I suppose I do?

I'm a joke? That's ok with me - I've always reallly liked jokes.

[Michael Wright]

I wrote that largely to get your attention, after trying unsuccessfully to politely bring you back into discussions that you steamrolled into then walked out of. I'm not the only one, you just saw my post first.

The vast majority of what I have seen of your 300 posts, is you running up and down all the threads dismissing everyone's point of view, and contributing next to nothing. On a range of occassions now people have asked you to qualify your point of view, come back with some experiences and solid contributions, and challenged your dismissal of their views. You haven't extended the courtesy of answering them, and have wandered off to find fresh threads to scrutinise.

This is of course only my opinion, and I am no more important than anyone else on here. It was just starting to piss me off so I spoke my mind, you're clearly big enough to handle it.

[JKDBrando]

So lets set up a sparring match just to get the pissin contest out of the way.

[Michael Wright]

Where did that come from?

[JKDBrando]

Well,
Let's see. Oh here is where it came from. It was a Joke, unless you guys really want to spar and tape it for the forums to see. Another Joke!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Wright
Wait. Wait. You're the guy who has ignored every single question or challenge to qualify your arguments and contribute anything positive to this forum. Instead you run and hide, trolling around like a chicken shit undermining people's contributions and badly misrepresenting the beliefs of a genuine, evolutionary martial artist.

Are you going to stand up and call me out on anything I have said? Come on, bring it on? What have you actually got to say? Anything? No.

Way to go, Bodhi! We new you were a joke.

Originally Posted by bodhisattva

Um. Yeah. (shrug) So I ignore your challenges. Are you so important that I should pay attention to all of your challenges?

Run and hide? What does that even mean in terms of a web forum?

Stand up and call you out? Why would I? I might comment on some of it - whta my opinion is.. but the idea of "calling you out", again, is kind of weird to me in the context of a web forum.

Have I got anything to actually say? I don't know, over 300 posts worth of stuff. So I suppose I do?

I'm a joke? That's ok with me - I've always reallly liked jokes.

[bodhisattva]

Originally Posted by Michael Wright

I wrote that largely to get your attention, after trying unsuccessfully to politely bring you back into discussions that you steamrolled into then walked out of. I'm not the only one, you just saw my post first.

The vast majority of what I have seen of your 300 posts, is you running up and down all the threads dismissing everyone's point of view, and contributing next to nothing. On a range of occassions now people have asked you to qualify your point of view, come back with some experiences and solid contributions, and challenged your dismissal of their views. You haven't extended the courtesy of answering them, and have wandered off to find fresh threads to scrutinise.

This is of course only my opinion, and I am no more important than anyone else on here. It was just starting to piss me off so I spoke my mind, you're clearly big enough to handle it.

I think, Michael, it's important for you to realize that while web forums are conversational yet they still are not actually conversation.

So if you say something, and I don't respond, it probably just means I have a job and when I'm not at work, I'm trying to enjoy myself wrestling, boxing, and fighting in the clinch. Lately, I've had more time to do things like post, because as a designer, things get slow in December/January in my industry. So I've had time.

but, unlike actual conversation it's not actually rude if I don't get back to what you said. In conversation if you say "so, fella, how do you feel about that fighter with the tattoos and the bald head" and I don't answer you, it could be an insult.

But if you post something, and I don't respond, it's no insult. Truth is, though you seem to have a burr in your ass towards me, for whatever reason, I've found your posts informative and you seem like a nice enough guy. Why you get upset that I disagree openly with most of the "fighting babble" that exists is beyond me.

But I'm OK with it. I personally like you just fine, regardless of how you view me or choose to talk to me. No biggie.

AND - worry not! I'll be working my ass off shortly - cause laborers need logo designs, websites, and signage - especially wnen their busy time rolls in. And you guys won't have to hear me say "Kata is a waste of time and money" and then get further upset that I didn't log back in to see all the responses about "mystic energy" and "old guys can't fight so they need kata" or "pro boxer ABC does Kata" and "Why don't you just let us do our funny punching dances.."

Big enough to take it? Well...sometimes. For instance, when you called me a "joke" I went straight to furious, unconscious masturbation and sucking my thumb and talking to the ghost of Bruce LeRoy...

But otherwise, I'm usually ok with it.

[Michael Wright]

Bodhi,

Somewhere along the line this has all come across as personal, and thats not what I was trying to get across, although its my fault for making my posts a bit emotive. As I say, that was just a bit of a ruse to get us into this conversation.

This isn’t about me, or you, its about the forum and the many people on here who look for help and advice. I’ve bumped heads with a number of people on here who I feel add nothing but negativity and dismissal of people’s point of view, so again this isn’t personal to you. Why do I care? You’d think I have better things to do with my time! Everything in my life to do with martial arts is 100%, so when I get passionate about the forum and the people on it, that’s just the way I am. Its pretty sad really I guess but there you go.

Its not that I disagree with your point of view, we actually agree on so many things, as hard as they were to hear at first some years ago. I have no bug in my arse about you nor do I dislike you, I don’t even know you. As I say, and have said from the start, it would be great to hear some input from you and for us to learn from the benefit of your training and experience, as opposed to a lot of what you post which is pretty negative and non-contributory (if that is a word). But at the end of the day it’s a free country brother, so if that’s your way then fair enough.