Fighter vs. Martial Artist

[fozzy40]

I've been a studied martial arts from a young age (never a competitive fighter though) and have always believed that the philosophy of martial arts goes hand in hand with the combat training.

I was having a discussion with someone this past weekend who basically says that he doesn't really care to learn about the history and/or philosophy of martial arts. This conversation kind of sparked a lot of different questions for me:

Do you consider yourself a martial artist or a fighter?
Is there a difference or is it just semantics?
Should instructors emphasize the spiritual aspect as much as the physical?
Are we [society] promoting a "watered-down" version of martial arts?

Any thoughts?

[DickHardman]

if you want to see the difference between martial artist and fighter, look at anderson silva vs rich franklin 1 & 2.

there is a difference. the true martial artist usually knows the subtle tricks and techniques of his art better than the fighter. you can also be both though. seems like the greatest fighters around are those who dedicated themselves to particular arts. people like bj penn, st pierre, matt sera, matt blake, anderson silva etc.....they are all great martial artists.

then there are great martial artists who arent fighters at all, but are great martial artists. they are very low key and try to keep away from trouble as much as possible. the mr miagi types who would train intensely for 30-40 years just so when someone attacked him he could step out of the way and let the attacker hurt himself on the concrete wall or car window behind him.

i find myself to be more the mr miagi type martial artist. im not a fighter. just want to know some simple self defense to protect myself when im getting into my car outside of 7-11 or while im walking to work by myself. . something like that.

[bigboywasim]

Originally Posted by fozzy40

I've been a studied martial arts from a young age (never a competitive fighter though) and have always believed that the philosophy of martial arts goes hand in hand with the combat training.

I was having a discussion with someone this past weekend who basically says that he doesn't really care to learn about the history and/or philosophy of martial arts. This conversation kind of sparked a lot of different questions for me:

Do you consider yourself a martial artist or a fighter?
Is there a difference or is it just semantics?
Should instructors emphasize the spiritual aspect as much as the physical?
Are we [society] promoting a "watered-down" version of martial arts?

Any thoughts?

Not wanting to learn the history and/or philosophy of martial arts is not a good thing. Martial arts are more than just fighting. They teach you love, respect and honor. They make you a better person. They also teach you that you are a human and have weaknesses.

I believe traditional martial arts and modern ones go hand in hand.

Compare a MMA fighter that has no TMA background with a MMA fighter that has a TMA background and you will see a difference in character.

[treelizard]

Originally Posted by bigboywasim

Compare a MMA fighter that has no TMA background with a MMA fighter that has a TMA background and you will see a difference in character.

I disagree... I've met just as many rat bastards with TMA backgrounds as I have without.

[bigboywasim]

Originally Posted by treelizard

I disagree... I've met just as many rat bastards with TMA backgrounds as I have without.

In my experience what I said is true for the most part. I don't know about others. Everyone else can share their thoughts on this.

[Knuckles&Knees]

Originally Posted by bigboywasim

In my experience what I said is true for the most part. I don't know about others. Everyone else can share their thoughts on this.

I tend to agree with treelizard. Daily practice of traditional martial arts is not so unsimilar to going to daily mass or being a celibate, secular member of Opus Dei. The activities and cultural expressions can help promote the essence of the moral philosophies but ultimately a man's heart is his own. All human beings are broken in some degree or another, no amount of religion, formal education, or traditional martial arts practice is going to make *all* people holy or nice people all the time.

I agree with you, however, that the culture of mixed martial arts produces a lot more obnoxious loud mouths and much more chest thumping machoism than traditional martial arts culture. Many people have taken sports MMA to be the complete and utter holy grail of life and consequently some have been emotionally hurt by Don Fry (drunken at the time) being knocked down by a boxing couch in a public fight in a lobby. The culture of board shorts, bravado, trash talking and easily dismissing any and all others outside MMA and its said culture was not expecting something like that as possible in "reality" street encounters. The MMA culture is the type of culture that "snubs its nose" at refinement, tailored suits, and just reserved and respectful conduct. At least this has been my impression of it (from a distance - I'm not in the MMA world), but perhaps I'm wrong. On the other hand you have nice and respectful kind people in MMA too. So, none of it is totally black and white once you get down to individuals and their own hearts and minds.

[JKDBrando]

I train to fight. To fight you have to have a fighters mentality. Sometimes that mentality exaggerates and shows your flare, but seriously you really have to be pumped up and have that testosterone going to go fight for 15+ minutes.
It doesn't take away from being humble or learning the martial arts and where they came from. Now one person being being arrogant over the top happens in both worlds but jeez who can't be happy for winning a fight for money. It's pride in there work. It gives them another job. I will be estatic if I win over 2k for winning an amutuerfight and alot of those UFC, Pride, WEC people make more then I do in 2 years with one fight. Seems worth it to me to say something and love life.
Now that doesn't mean I don't love to learn my martial arts or disrepect them by showing ego time to time, its an individual thing and we should not be held responsible for others actions. There are winners that are more graceful but they don't come back to the big paydays as someone thats exciting to watch. It's about the money there.

[Michael Wright]

If you are a person in the martial arts who creates, develops, expands, adapts and expresses your art - then you are a martial artist.

If you fight in the competetive arena of your art - then you are a fighter.

People who may be involved in martial arts but fit into neither category - are neither.

[WildWest.]

I would say I'm neither a Martial Artist or a fighter, what's in a label anyway?

I'm just a human.

[fozzy40]

Great post Mike Brewer. I definitely see your point and I like your warrior analogy. Just to elaborate though, a true "warrior" in my mind has fighting ability, spiritual connections, a student of the art, and who lives by a moral code (of sorts.) This is a very idealistic definition but a must in my mind. Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of what MMA was in the 80's and 90's but I question what it has become specifically the types of athletes and attitudes that are now representing the sport. Adding to Knuckles&Knees comment about [u]some[u] of the characters in the sport, it is a little difficult for me watch the type of bravado we all have seen. It's difficult for me to swallow the irony when the UFC announcers repeatedly mention how much respect the fighters have for one another when you see a fighter scream and taunt at their knocked out opponent before the obligatory hug and pat on the back. I understand the whole adrenaline and testosterone argument but where do you draw the line between emotion and disrespectful. I guess traditional martial arts always made that line very clear for me.

Again, some questions pop into my head:
Is this really respect?
Are we watching "warriors" or athletic thugs?
As a society, are we actually hurting TMA by promoting this type of sport? The bigger question is, does anyone really care?

Thoughts?

[Paul-M]

I would say I'm neither.
I love learning to fight, and am just beginning training MMA and love it, but I have been training Shaolin Kung Fu for a while and love it too. My MMA is completely practical and fighting based and my Kung Fu is more traditional with wepaons forms and animal forms. I love them both, and I also read up on the history and philosophy of martial arts. The way I see it is we are all improving ourselves physically and mentally, even if we follow a different path we are still going to the same place.

[fire cobra]

Originally Posted by Michael Wright

If you are a person in the martial arts who creates, develops, expands, adapts and expresses your art - then you are a martial artist.

If you fight in the competetive arena of your art - then you are a fighter.

People who may be involved in martial arts but fit into neither category - are neither.

That sums it uo for me.

[bodhisattva]

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

When we watch MMA guys, are we watching fighters, martial artists, or thugs? How about none of the above? I believe we're watching athletes.

Wait. Wait. You're the guy who told me "be careful hanging out with those athletes" or "you've been hanging out with those athletes too long" or something to that effect...

..and you said it, implying that it was hurting my game somehow.

Now you are suddenly callking fighters athletes.

Way to go, Mike! We knew you'd come around.

[Shoot]

Fighters train for and participate in a combat sport--a game.

Martial artists utilize a broader program that may include one or all of the following: 1. artistic expression of combat; 2. technique training; 3. sport and sparring; 4. mental and/or spiritual strengthening; 5. general physical conditioning. I think the goal of a MARTIAL art is to prepare for actual combat (not a game) and improve yourself in the process.

A martial artist may also be a fighter or engage in combat sports.

[Michael Wright]

Originally Posted by bodhisattva

Wait. Wait. You're the guy who told me "be careful hanging out with those athletes" or "you've been hanging out with those athletes too long" or something to that effect...

..and you said it, implying that it was hurting my game somehow.

Now you are suddenly callking fighters athletes.

Way to go, Mike! We knew you'd come around.

Wait. Wait. You're the guy who has ignored every single question or challenge to qualify your arguments and contribute anything positive to this forum. Instead you run and hide, trolling around like a chicken shit undermining people's contributions and badly misrepresenting the beliefs of a genuine, evolutionary martial artist.

Are you going to stand up and call me out on anything I have said? Come on, bring it on? What have you actually got to say? Anything? No.

Way to go, Bodhi! We new you were a joke.