Judo throws in MMA training

[bodhisattva]

Still, to this day, I hear people say Judo throws won't work for self defense or in alive environments like MMA.


What do you guys think?

[Shoot]

It's not that they "will not work." It's that they are low percentage techniques. There are really just a few types of throws--hip, trip, and sweep. There are also sacrifices. Then there are many variations on these. But the most common "throws" either use the hip as the fulcrum or the knee ("trip") (perhaps down to the ankle). The Judo Gi, the rules of the sport, and the collar elbow tie up make these styles of throws or takedowns high percentage moves in the sport of Judo. It is much more difficult to utilize these throws effectively when the opponent is not wearing a gi, not bound by Judo rules, is free to hit you etc... Western "freestyle" wrestling and Greco-Roman Wrestling are higher precentage takedowns in MMA or in most hand to hand combat situations.

EDIT: It takes an enormous amount of practice--perhaps for several years at a minimum to be able to effectively carry out Judo throws even within the confines the sport of Judo (much less in a free for all). Compare that to wrestling which is very instinctive and simple. Most guys know how to instinctively and somewhat effectively "tackle" another person even without any formal training. Just growing up a guy instills a certain level of combat skills, and wrestling is typically one of those skills. It's important to decide what you're going to spend your limited training time on.

[Tant01]

Originally Posted by bodhisattva

Still, to this day, I hear people say Judo throws won't work for self defense or in alive environments like MMA.


What do you guys think?

The double leg takedown is a JUDO (Tewaza) technique. see MOROTE-GARI

I've seen judo (like) throws in MMA uncounted times and the joint locks, chokes and many positions have "counterparts" in the sport of Judo.

Some folks call it Brazilian Jiu-jitsu...

[rage`n]

Just take a look at Karo, and Mani, they use judo in mma, and so has Gokor when he fought in the past, but stuff Gokor used wasnt as well known as it was today.

[SamuraiGuy]

I throw guys with an uchi-mata from over hooks, or a whizzer all the time. If they know their wrestling they wont be letting u have an underhook and them putting that leg forward so it wotn work in that sense.

I hit this ALL of the time, in MMA training, takedown/striking with boxing gloves, no gi grappling, oh and when I do judo too.

My inside trip that I picked up in judo, an ouchi-gari works quite well for me too.

Alot of the pickups as well, deashi bari when you attempt a no-gi Osoto and they defend, you know all those types of things like that.

Or do you know those types of things like that, and think of Judo as an ippon seio-nage and thats it. (Thats the one arm shoulder throw if your unaware (no sarcasm))

If you watch Lyoto Machida vs Thierry Sokoudjou you'll see Sokoudjou take Lyoto down with ease.... him losing is besides the point....

Theres one inside trip in particular, he hits it so clean and just drops the fucker. The best part is he doesnt drop like say a Matt Serra does it, or every other wrestler I know, he hit it standing almost straight up like they teach you in Judo.

Edit; I forgot one thing, whoever said that its hard to throw people in Judo with Judo rules, your right. You wouldnt believe how easy it is to throw people when their trying to hit you.

[Tant01]

Originally Posted by SamuraiGuy

I throw guys ...all the time.

Edit; I forgot one thing, whoever said that its hard to throw people in Judo with Judo rules, your right. You wouldnt believe how easy it is to throw people when their trying to hit you.

.....................

[bodhisattva]

Originally Posted by rage`n

Just take a look at Karo, and Mani, they use judo in mma, and so has Gokor when he fought in the past, but stuff Gokor used wasnt as well known as it was today.

I agree. And even GSP used some Judo on Matt Hughes - and Hughes is a succesful Wrestler, going all the way back before highschool when he and his brother would get in crazy fights with each other (I know someone who grew up with Hughes..)

I mostly posted to see what people think. I agree with shoot - they aren't high percentage moves - the greco seems to work much better.

But I also realize that many moves, such as "Uchi Mata" in Judo, are duplicated in wrestling as well (doing Uchi Mata after someone tries to single leg you is very similar to popping a Wizzer with an inner thigh bump in wrestling - the only difference is you use the gi in judo..)

Karo and others pull the throws off.. But sometimes I wonder if that is akin to being a good Kicker. Some guys can score repeated knockouts with their feet in the MMA ring. But they are rare exceptions. For most people, kicks will just be the thing they do that keeps them from perfecting their hand skills to the maximum.

--

I went to a highly competetive judo club in St. Louis for a little while. They were great. They made some decent competitors within a years training time. They had great skills for fighting off wrestlers, too. They were a great club.

They said judo throws don't require someone wear anything more than a t-shirt. That if you get the Kuzushi right, you won't tear the shirt. That if you tear a guy's shirt throwing him, there was probably a better throw in the opposite direction that the fighter should have used instead.

I'm curious to hear more of your thoughts..

[bodhisattva]

Originally Posted by SamuraiGuy

I throw guys with an uchi-mata from over hooks, or a whizzer all the time. If they know their wrestling they wont be letting u have an underhook and them putting that leg forward so it wotn work in that sense.

I hit this ALL of the time, in MMA training, takedown/striking with boxing gloves, no gi grappling, oh and when I do judo too.

My inside trip that I picked up in judo, an ouchi-gari works quite well for me too.

Alot of the pickups as well, deashi bari when you attempt a no-gi Osoto and they defend, you know all those types of things like that.

Or do you know those types of things like that, and think of Judo as an ippon seio-nage and thats it. (Thats the one arm shoulder throw if your unaware (no sarcasm))

If you watch Lyoto Machida vs Thierry Sokoudjou you'll see Sokoudjou take Lyoto down with ease.... him losing is besides the point....

Theres one inside trip in particular, he hits it so clean and just drops the fucker. The best part is he doesnt drop like say a Matt Serra does it, or every other wrestler I know, he hit it standing almost straight up like they teach you in Judo.

Edit; I forgot one thing, whoever said that its hard to throw people in Judo with Judo rules, your right. You wouldnt believe how easy it is to throw people when their trying to hit you.

Throwing people off of hook-punches while in the clinch is easier than pooping after eating bran all day.

We duck under the near (punching) arm a lot, but we also duck-under the far arm sometimes, too, just to add a bit of surprise now and then.

Man, we fight tonigh, boxing and striking in the clinch, and I can't wait.