MMA is Not Self Defense!

[kingoftheforest]

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

Do what you like. Play around with different stuff. In the end, do what you know works best for you and stay open to new options. If everybody played by that rule, we wouldn't have this fucking MMA vs Every-Other-Goddamned-Thing Jihad all the time.

Derka Derka Jihad. Derka Derka Ahmen.

But all the infidels must die Mike or at least change their minds.




Seriously though it only took like what a hundred threads and all kinds of crap flinging for us to come to a conclusive point in all this. Better late than never right.

[migo]

Originally Posted by kingoftheforest

.

Like I said different experiences. I have yet to be trained by an RBSD teacher who advocates preemptive attacks. If that's been your experience then hey you find crappy schools in all arts.

Got any links to your teachers? I haven't found any RBSD schools that didn't advocate preemptive attacks.

Sorry with everything I have read or been told MMA didn't really congeal or gain that term until UFC. Before I always heard of it as cross training. I'll have to do a little more in depth research on that. But even in dojo and ring matches there are rules. That is the only aspect that separates it from the street. That and the fact that you can't stop a street fight while everybody changes costumes.

Yeah, cross-training gives MMA a lot of variance. It was a term given to people who were doing it, hence the not designed part. There's a lot of variance in street fights, and not everyone sticks to the rules in a dojo match.

Sorry I think you may have misunderstood. The one thing I was referring to was the actual fight. When you get in a ring no matter what styles or skills each fighter brings he knows there is going to be a fight.

Ah ok. Yes, you're right. I'm missing the significance of that detail though.

Can't disagree with that. Everyone can avoid fights, but didn't you just say there are people out there who will attack you just for the hell of it too.

Yep, there are also bombs that can go off where you happen to be walking, and street racing kids who can hit you on the sidewalk when they swerve.

They are few and far between and I have only been in a few fights outside of anything to do with jobs I had doing security myself. But I have seen some people who lock up and have no clue what to do when some asshole starts screaming at them so not everybody can do that instinctively. It's good to train things you already know to get better at them. Everyone knows how to run but there are still people who train at it.

Fair point. I don't see locking up as a death sentence though. You can lock up and stand there while someone's screaming at you and not get beat up.

Paranoia is a terrible thing and you can easily trick your mind into it. Tom Yum (no offense bro) posted a perfect example of it. He was hyped up and ready to thrown down on a bum getting talking to himself on the bus. Bums who ride the bus are nuts they're gonna talk to themselves who the hell else is gonna? I go to work and Wal-Mart to the movies and all kinds of places. I have yet to get into a fight. If I think something may be a problem I just avoid it all together, I don't reach for my knife or begin checking for the exits. I don't start having breathing problems or sweating. If someone starts yelling at me I tend to ignore them but keep them in my peripheral vision. If they approach me I ask "Can I help you Sir/Ma'am?"

If the training you received caused you to be paranoid I can't really psycho analyze that on a forum but I don't seem to have that problem in my daily life.

I don't have it anymore either. I just stopped thinking about those things. I stopped worrying about where I'm standing in an elevator. I stopped worrying about whether my hands could get out of my pockets easily, I stopped worrying if some grumpy bastard was about to attack me, and just went with the assumption that it wasn't going to happen. I don't go to ATMs on the street late at night though. That's pushing my luck. If doing something looks like it'll really increase my chances of having trouble I just don't do it at all. I used to do some research into bullet proof vests, because some people got shot at a club I was at. Eventually I got some senses and stopped going to clubs, and I just refuse to go to any club that has metal detectors. I know people can get weapons past them (I used to do it all the time), and if they have them, they're clearly worried someone might bring a weapon. Good warning sign for me and I just stay away. Seems like we have the same method, and I'd be surprised if we arrived on it in a particularly different manner.

As for idiots who claim to have been in hundreds of street fights. Usually the ones voicing their great conquests are the ones who are full of shit. If anyone had been in hundreds of street fights unless they were military in an occupied zone (which counts as combat to me) or an L.E.O. then they would be behind bars plain and simple. You don't get into that many street fights without law enforcement seeing you as a nuisance or instigator.

Good point. Interesting thing though is these guys are quite prominent members of the RBSD community.

Like I said earlier and Mr. Brewer here voiced also. I am not saying MMA is useless and may be what some people choose to use for SD. In my opinion I just don't think it's the best set of tools for me. I'm not into trophies or fighting for no reason so the ring appeal doesn't grab my attention. I spent some time doing it and moved on. This is just my opinion and I appreciate that we can respect each others' rights to those. Thank you again Migo this is the first time I can say that one of these threads didn't turn into a pissing contest. Thanks for the input everyone. Rereading this and processing all the sides and views so far will be a real treat.

I can understand that. My brother's the same way. I actually get a rush out of competition fighting, and if I haven't been doing it for a while I start itching for a fight. Doing MMA probably keeps me calm enough that I don't feel I have to get into fights in a non-controlled environment. I've run into a couple others who have similar experiences (and then of course the guys who like to fight and train MMA so they win instead of getting their asses beat...).

[migo]

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

Do what you like. Play around with different stuff. In the end, do what you know works best for you and stay open to new options. If everybody played by that rule, we wouldn't have this fucking MMA vs Every-Other-Goddamned-Thing Jihad all the time.

MMA did develop out of a question of what style is best. It's somewhat expected that it'll generate these kinds of discussions.

[Tant01]

Originally Posted by migo

I.....

A) MMA wasn't designed, it happened
.......

Originally Posted by migo

MMA did develop out of a question of what style is best. It's somewhat expected that it'll generate these kinds of discussions.

::::sigh::::

The recent evolution in so called MMA came about because of the popularity of a certain Brazilian family style of Judo. (Jiu-Jitsu)

Once the UFC was up and running it became about beating the BJJ/GJJ guys.

Folks have been cross training styles for ever... Kajukenbo is a good example of that (pre bruce lee) mixed martial arts.

Masahiko Kimura cross trained in wrestling and boxing in addition to being a Judo master...

Judo itself is a relatively modern "mixed" martial art. It answered the question of which art is "best" over a hundred years ago...

[kingoftheforest]

Originally Posted by Tant01

::::sigh::::

The recent evolution in so called MMA came about because of the popularity of a certain Brazilian family style of Judo. (Jiu-Jitsu)

Once the UFC was up and running it became about beating the BJJ/GJJ guys.

Folks have been cross training styles for ever... Kajukenbo is a good example of that (pre bruce lee) mixed martial arts.

Masahiko Kimura cross trained in wrestling and boxing in addition to being a Judo master...

Judo itself is a relatively modern "mixed" martial art. It answered the question of which art is "best" over a hundred years ago...

Zing! ................

[DickHardman]

judo/jiu jitsu pwns all.

i think the "way" is truly one of the best ways

[migo]

Originally Posted by Tant01

::::sigh::::

The recent evolution in so called MMA came about because of the popularity of a certain Brazilian family style of Judo. (Jiu-Jitsu)

Once the UFC was up and running it became about beating the BJJ/GJJ guys.

Folks have been cross training styles for ever... Kajukenbo is a good example of that (pre bruce lee) mixed martial arts.

Masahiko Kimura cross trained in wrestling and boxing in addition to being a Judo master...

Judo itself is a relatively modern "mixed" martial art. It answered the question of which art is "best" over a hundred years ago...

They didn't call it MMA then. When anyone's talking about MMA it's in the context of the last 15 years.

[Garland]

Originally Posted by migo

They didn't call it MMA then. When anyone's talking about MMA it's in the context of the last 15 years.

I fail to see your point. Why don't you spell out why you think this distinction is important.

[migo]

When people talk MMA, they're clearly not talking about any of the other arts that are mixes (Judo, Kajukenbo, Hapkido, Krav Maga). Sure they were mixing things, but it's not MMA as a 3 letter acronym. MMA is what has developed as a result of the UFC. Judo isn't MMA, it's a mixed martial art but it's not Mixed Martial Arts. Kajukenbo isn't MMA it's a mixed martial art, but it's not Mixed Martial Arts. Hapkido... you get the idea. Nobody means Judo, Kajukenbo, Hapkido, Krav Maga or anything that was developed before 1993 (with the exception of Shooto) when they say MMA. The term didn't exist before the mid nineties, and it either means training in multiple styles concurrently to get the best of each range (Judo is training a single style and only covers 1.5 ranges, Kajukenbo is a single style while covering all 3 ranges, etc. they're still single styles), or it means the type of competition where predominantly people who train in such a fashion compete (but like Judo, wrestling, Sambo, BJJ and such can have people with different training bacgrounds competing).

[Tant01]

Originally Posted by migo

When people talk MMA, they're clearly not talking about any of the other arts that are mixes ....
...
MMA. The term didn't exist before the mid nineties, and it either means training in multiple styles concurrently to get the best of each range (Judo is training a single style and only covers 1.5 ranges, Kajukenbo is a single style while covering all 3 ranges, etc. they're still single styles), or it means the type of competition where predominantly people who train in such a fashion compete (but like Judo, wrestling, Sambo, BJJ and such can have people with different training bacgrounds competing).

You seem to know a lot about MMA... How old is that rule for submission where the guy taps out? Where did it come from?

Thanks Migo

[TTEscrima]

Originally Posted by migo

TTE: That's quite fascinating that you could peg what training background they had based on where they got in fights. Do you have any insight into what influenced that?

It wasn't my list, it was the sum of the observations made by the Master Chief based on his 30 plus years experience.

He pointed out that the type of art a person chose said a lot about their personality. He also made it clear that while people can't be pigeon holed we could use the chart as a primer to further our own studies of people.

Judo people tend to be cool headed and don't start trouble. IE:They don't hear someone discussing their art and rush over to belittle everyone else's choices.

Boxers tend to be a little more outgoing hence more likely to be at the club, the boxer also usually preempted the BS with a quick flurry of punches and left and unless drinking (the club and barracks) usually didn't get into fights.

Wrestlers often have condescending attitudes and think they know it all, add that to a hot head and you find them starting shit with people over nothing, hence the fights in the mess hall. IE: Some people need to add alcohol to become an instant asshole, wrestlers just need to wake up.

Dojo darlings use their supposed expertise in the arts to pick up chicks so they're usually the ones getting their ass kicked in the club or base housing trying to impress the girls.

[Tant01]

Originally Posted by TTEscrima

.... Some people need to add alcohol to become an instant asshole, wrestlers just need to wake up.

Dojo darlings use their supposed expertise in the arts to pick up chicks so they're usually the ones getting their ass kicked in the club or base housing trying to impress the girls.

................

Thanks for sharing your expertise... (and humor!)

[kingoftheforest]

Tant and TTE I tried to pos rep you both but I have to spread "it" around some first.

Unfortunately W.H.O says if I spread it around anymore they'll have to create a vaccine.

[Tant01]

I'm in the same boat.... I just hate the red pills.

[Tom Yum]

Originally Posted by TTEscrima

It wasn't my list, it was the sum of the observations made by the Master Chief based on his 30 plus years experience.

He pointed out that the type of art a person chose said a lot about their personality. He also made it clear that while people can't be pigeon holed we could use the chart as a primer to further our own studies of people.

Judo people tend to be cool headed and don't start trouble. IE:They don't hear someone discussing their art and rush over to belittle everyone else's choices.

Boxers tend to be a little more outgoing hence more likely to be at the club, the boxer also usually preempted the BS with a quick flurry of punches and left and unless drinking (the club and barracks) usually didn't get into fights.

Wrestlers often have condescending attitudes and think they know it all, add that to a hot head and you find them starting shit with people over nothing, hence the fights in the mess hall. IE: Some people need to add alcohol to become an instant asshole, wrestlers just need to wake up.

Dojo darlings use their supposed expertise in the arts to pick up chicks so they're usually the ones getting their ass kicked in the club or base housing trying to impress the girls.

And JKD guys or muaythai fighters?