MMA is Not Self Defense!

[SamuraiGuy]

Originally Posted by bigboywasim

Very dangerous assumption. I challenge even fedor to take on a dog brother. He will get his ass handed to him. I practice modern Arnis. I also practice Muay Thai including mma. I will rather go empty hands than full blast contact stick fighting. It looks like you have no weapon experience and no idea what you saying. You have no been cut or head blasted open with a stick.

It is not only stick but these guys know knife too. You telling me some MMA guy is going to take out a dog brother with a knife or sword.

Any martial art that works is a sport (stupid idea).

You guys heard of Muay Boron. It is the traditional form of Muay Thai. Muay Thai is a cleaned up version of this dangerous TMA. Arnis is a traditional martial art. GJJ is also considered to be tradtional or at least not a sport like BJJ. You telling me these arts are useless.

A knife or a sword, interesting you know I've never seen a video of two people fighting to the death with knives or swords in a dog brothers gathering of the pack. Dont make up retarded fucking arguments that dont apply.

I also laugh at how dangerous you make sticks out to be. Certainly they are formidable weapons but I'm pretty sure Fedor can take ONE shot with a stick to clinch with you (it likely wouldnt even land clean on his head), then your weapon is rendered useless and your screwed. You really think a fucking CroCop LHK isnt comparable to getting hit with a stick?

And I never said TMA was useless your putting words in my mouth.

I also never said any martial art that works is a sport, it just that as you describe a sport, competition, facing off one on one, rules (albeit limited), lack of intent to kill or seriously injure, the dog brothers gathering of the pack fits into that category.

[Mike Brewer]

Very dangerous assumption. I challenge even fedor to take on a dog brother. He will get his ass handed to him.

First of all, that's just a wild assumption. Fedor - or any other world class fighter for that matter - has a great chance in any fight. He's used to being hit, and if he has the good sense to close to a range where the stick isn't as useful, then the tide turns. I've done full contact stick matches in Dog Brother fashion quite often, and I've been hit as hard as my partners could swing. I've been opened up by sticks, been bashed in the face, and had fingers broken. I'm here to tell you, it's going to take a whole lot for a rattan stick to stop someone cold in their tracks with one good shot. And the reality is that if it doesn 't stop a guy, then you have a fight on your hands!

MMA is a sport, just like boxing and wrestling. They're organized athletic events, not streetfights. But I'm here to tell you, a good athlete from a combat sport will hold his or her own in the real world far more often than not. You can delude yourself if you like and claim the superiority of this art over that art, this combat discipline over that combat sport, but the fact is a good athlete with pain tolerance and mental sharpness is going to kick the piss out of your average dojo hound that tries to convince himself MMA is nothing more than a sport without relevance.

[Mike Brewer]

Originally Posted by bodhisattva

That final statement is a very, very dangerous assumption.

Bodhi, it may be a dangerous assumption in your opinion, but the statistics support Little Apple all the way. Anywhere from 70% to 90% of potential victims (depending on the demographic, type of crime, and stats - mine are from the NIJ) who resist an attacker will fare better than those who don't.

This is especially true in cases of rape and sexual assault. Women who fight back with intent are raped FAR less often than those who submit. Are there exceptions? Sure there are. But resisitance is the safest and most constructive bet.

[SamuraiGuy]

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

Bodhi, it may be a dangerous assumption in your opinion, but the statistics support Little Apple all the way. Anywhere from 70% to 90% of potential victims (depending on the demographic, type of crime, and stats - mine are from the NIJ) who resist an attacker will fare better than those who don't.

This is especially true in cases of rape and sexual assault. Women who fight back with intent are raped FAR less often than those who submit. Are there exceptions? Sure there are. But resisitance is the safest and most constructive bet.

I took his statement to mean it was dangerous for the attacker to make that assumption.

Oh yeah, and he might believe you about the Fedor/Stick thing so thanks.

[bigboywasim]

You know there are many types of sticks. Some of the are hard as a metal pole. If you practiced Arnis you would know.

Sure thing the Dog Brothers do not fight with swords. If they did someone would end up dead. That is the reality. Just because I don't practice shooting at a live person doesn't mean I cannot shoot a gun.

They understand the blade. If one of them had one then you and I or anyone else would stay away.

A lot of you are underestimating weapon fighting. The dog brothers know BJJ they practice muay thai. They understand the arts well. They used them in their matches. Maybe they are not at MMA level but they do know them.

You can use the stick on the ground too. You can use it to keep people away. You can use the bud at close range. You must understand Arnis first before making such statements.

I am not talking bad about MMA. I have respect for it. I practice it. The dog brothers game is at another level. I have seen their matches. That is better for self defense because it included weapon training.

Self-defense is not fighting.

[Mike Brewer]

"If you practiced arnis, you would know..."

Don't be such a homo about it wasim. There's absolutely no need whatsoever to talk down to people like that. You're being a dick with that kind of statement. Of course people realize that there are hardwood and other types of sticks out there, and no, they don't need to practice arnis for such sage knowledge.

Of course, if you practiced "real" self-defense, you'd know that almost nobody runs around packing hardwood sticks waiting to jump people so it's a moot point.

Talk all you want about having seen the Dog Brothers' matches, but it's just talk. I used to train on the same floor as Marc Denny at the Inosanto Academy and he and I have had many many conversations about training person to person. I can tell you'd he'd probably be one of the first to dismiss your comments about Fedor because you're right - he does understand fighting and he recognizes that a well prepared, tough, athletic fighter has a chance no matter what the format might be. You know why he and the group started doing BJJ? Because they worked with the Machados and saw the same results over and over again. The guy with the stick experience was getting taken down and choked out. I love what the Dog Brothers do, and I have done it myself for a lot of yeasr (since around 1993 in fact). I'm not suggesting that they don't have the right formula, nor that they don't know what's up in terms of real fighting. What I'm suggesting is that statements like "Fedor would get his ass handed to him by a Dog Brother" is comic bookish at best and it makes you come across like some kind of 1980's ninja-worshipping punkass.

No offense.

[Bjjexpertise@be]

Sure thing the Dog Brothers do not fight with swords. If they did someone would end up dead. That is the reality.

Ok I just gotta point this out.....how realistic is it to practice street defense against someone with a sword? Is there street defense techniques against flails and trebuchets as well?

[Tant01]

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

"If you practiced arnis, you would know..."

.....

Pointy end goes that way?

LOL

[bigboywasim]

I take back what I said about the sword. I take back what I said about fedor. He is my favorite fighter.

People still use the knife don't they?

You say no one carries the stick. What if they have a metal pole? What if they used a bat. The stick can be substituted with many other weapons. Does the average MMA guy know what to do if someone has such a weapon?

My Arnis training teaches me that only at the end of a wild swing or at close range in clinch do I have a chance to get the baseball bat out of someones hand. If I block I block not the bat but the attackers wrist area to stop an attack if I am close. I would simply try to avoid a fight or attack and get away if I can but this is if I cannot.

If someone is trying to attack me with a knife I try to get away. If I cannot then the only way I will get the knife out of someone's hand at the end of a thrust. I cannot get it out when someone is slashing diagonally. Does the MMA guy know these things? These things are important in self-defense.

Arnis is a good art to learn to fight off multiple attackers.

[Bjjexpertise@be]

Originally Posted by bigboywasim

I take back what I said about the sword. I take back what I said about fedor. He is my favorite fighter.

People still use the knife don't they?

You say no one carries the stick. What if they have a metal pole? What if they used a bat. The stick can be substituted with many other weapons. Does the average MMA guy know what to do if someone has such a weapon?

My Arnis training teaches me that only at the end of a wild swing or at close range in clinch do I have a chance to get the baseball bat out of someones hand. If I block I block not the bat but the attackers wrist area to stop an attack if I am close. I would simply try to avoid a fight or attack and get away if I can but this is if I cannot.

If someone is trying to attack me with a knife I try to get away. If I cannot then the only way I will get the knife out of someone's hand at the end of a thrust. I cannot get it out when someone is slashing diagonally. Does the MMA guy know these things? These things are important in self-defense.

Arnis is a good art to learn to fight off multiple attackers.

I'm pretty sure it's obvious that you don't try to stand there and absorb blow from a bat and that you don't stand there and try to block knife slashes. An MMA fighter is conditioned to take punishment and be aggressive, all the while seeking to maintain control. As a grappler who dabbles in MMA, I'd say if I was confronted with a bat I'd constantly seek to keep distance and keep away from him then close the gap quickly and aggressively if/when he charges. A knife? I'm obviously not going to stand there and try to box the guy if he has something like that. Either keep the distance and run for it, find a long makeshift weapon, or in desperate situations, seek to control the hand with the knife.
Basically, simply put, an MMA fighter with common sense will find his way of dealing with it. It's not like a person who's never seen a bat before is going to stand there and let you wail on him with a blunt instrument while he flings his arms to and fro trying to hit you.

[DJColdfusion]

Just a quick note about the Dog Brothers. I, like Mike, has done some full contact sparring and I've had the privilege of training with a couple of different Dog Brothers. One was horrible off of his back but flat out frightened me with the kind of power he could generate. The other was less powerful but a BJJ black belt. And guess what? They both had different strategies that led them to win after win.

Jean Jacques Machado actually fought at a gathering once. When the fight started he tossed his weapon aside and took his opponent down with a double leg where he transitioned to mount and a few seconds later he nailed a submission.

The Dog Brothers have a mission and it is not to generate the ultimate martial artists. It is to teach its members to walk like a warrior for all of their days.

Higher Consciousness through harder contact. Great Credo, Great Guys.
http://www.dogbrothers.com/pages/art...ciousness.html

[Ghost]

Unarmed most people would be hard pushed to beat a good MMA guy.

I think for self defense it would do just fine. However the point about avoiding in the first place is completely correct.

[jwf89]

mma+krav maga wouldn't that be pretty good with a combat sport to get used to fighting and krav to make it practical for the street

[Mr. Arieson]

I have personally seen Wrestlers win many street fights. I have seen wrestlers take down some of the biggest and nastiest guys. I am not taking about BJJ guys (they did not really have that back then), but simple high school and college wrestlers!

The wrestlers at my high school, for example, would brawl regularly with football players from our rival school. I have seen bloody fights at parties involving these guys where sticks and chairs and even tables were used as weapons against them. The wrestlers won every time. I even saw one of them bite off an ear, and I know they were not "trained" in biting.

[Ghost]

So in conclusion can we say that MMA is useful for self defense providing there are no weapons are used but even then its still better than no training.