MMA - training program

[Ghost]

OK, im looking at moving into competing in MMA when i get back to the uk. Im trying to put a training plan together now so i was wondering if you guys could look at this. I know its a HUGE timetable but im not a beginner and have trained this kind of volume for some time now in Muay Thai so please dont think im trying to show off or anything its a serious question.

For someone looking to compete do you think this is enough. I have A LOT of catching up to do on my ground game,my stand up is good and competitive already.

The gyms i am selecting are:
London Shootfighters
London Fight Factory
Cheshunt or Finchley boxing gym or another suggestion?


Monday

Morning - Weight training and sauna

12.30pm - 2pm BJJ - London Fight Factory

6.30pm - 8pm - Shoot Boxing - striking and takedowns - London Shootfighters
8pm - 9.45pm - MMA - London Shootfighters

Tuesday

Morning - 6 mile run

12.30pm - 2pm BJJ - London Fight Factory

6.30 - 8pm - Thai Boxing - London Shootfighters
8 - 9.45pm - MMA - London Shootfighters

Wednesday
Morning - Weights

2 - 4pm - MMA - London - Shootfighters

6.30pm - 8pm - Wrestling
8 - 9pm - thai sparring

Thursday

Morning 6 mile run

12.30pm - 2pm BJJ - London Fight Factory
6.30pm - 8pm - Boxing - London Shootfighters
8- 9.45pm - MMA London Shootfighters

Friday

Morning - weights

2.30pm - 4.30pm MMA - London Shootfighters

PM - boxing at a proper boxing club

Saturday
AM - sprint training
REST

Sunday
REST

(london shoot do a 2 hour MMA sparring session in the afternoo from 3-5 worth taking as well?)

[Mike Brewer]

Ghost,
Knowing that you're an experienced fighter and you probably have your own work ideas, I don't want to talk down to you at all. There are some things I'd recommend to make the transition smoother, though. MMA is usually fought in rounds nearly twice as long as you're used to. A big problem for me switching from kickboxing or boxing to almost anything else was that I had an almost innate rhythm or timing that told me what pace to push in order to fight hard for three minutes. Jumping into longer rounds screwed with my clock a little. I know you'll be training longer rounds in preparation, but that kickboxer's clock will still be ticking in you, so plan on devoting a great deal of time to adding capacity to your gas tank.

I would substitute some of your road work with agility sprints. One of the easiest ways of doing it is to stack up sprints of varying distances and change up the footwork as you do so. Model each of these on an increasing scale that goes from shortest distance to longest in the following gradients:

40 meters
60 meters
100 meters
200 meters
440 meters

A 440 is typically one lap around a soccer field / football field lap track (quarter mile). You can use the yardage marks on the field for the other distances. Bear in mind, these are sprints, and should be run balls to the wall, all out.

Start with straight running sprints. Go through the routine. Your rest-to-work ratio is about three to one. If the sprint took ten seconds, for example, then rest for 30 seconds. If it took two minutes, rest for six. None should take you two minutes until you start switching up footwork on the 440s.

Next, switch to what I call half-and-halfs. You run half the distance at a forward run and then sharply and quickly snap to a sideways carioca (crossover step) at the halfway mark. Do this twice through to work both sides. On the 440, I recommend sprinting the curves and doing the carioca on the straightaways.

If you have it in you, go through one cycle doing high knees.

Finally, what I'll call front-to-backs. Forward for the first half, then snap around to a backward sprint for the last half. You only need to go through once on this one.

The time it takes to do this is pretty awful since your rest periods will begin to pile up. You'll feel like you're not working hard enough at first, but you'll appreciate it by the end, and you'll reduce the risk of injury. Also, it'll give you a more all-around benefit in terms of strength and not just endurance. The total distance for this cycle is roughly 40 meters shy of a half-mile per set, resting in intervals. That means the whole cycle is around 2.5 miles, but it's all done at a 100% sprint. It's demanding, and it'll improve your ability to fight in bursts like nothing else.

Since you have a solid background in Thai Boxing, I'd also shy away from doing much (any?) straight Thai Boxing sparring. You need to integrate the skills, and that means facing guys who do MMA. Your muay Thai isn't going anywhere, so there's no sense stroking the ol' ego by just doing what you know you're already good at. Replace some of the Thai specific sparring with MMA sparring. Train your Thai boxing all by itself if you want, but train against guys who are trying to shoot, trying to body lock, etc. Finding out how it all fits best for you is going to be your biggest challenge, and it's what will keep the game cerebral for you. You'll have a better understanding of what to do and when and why by integrating and you'll make better choices.

Also, since your Thai boxing is well developed, you might skip some of that and look at a pure boxing gym. Do this more than once a week when you feel you can afford the time. Boxing hands tend to work better in MMA for some reason. Actually, it's because the footwork and placement is different, and boxing teaches you to withdraw your body after the punch to the hitting range again, whereas Thai Boxing is so clinch-competent, they don't worry about it as much. It's not that you want to forget Thai boxing or anything, but I think some straight, unfiltered Western Boxing (especially amateur style, since it focuses more on straight punching) would serve you well.

I'm not suggesting that you change your whole game, because from what I can tell, you've done very well for yourself with the tools and skills you have. However, the things that tend to get muay Thai guys caught in MMA are the things that boxing fixes. Likewise, training against the types of guys you least want to fight will prepare you better than doing what's familiar, even if you do the latter at world-class intensity. Like Vunak used to say, now's the time to get comfortable being uncomfortable. Winning will cure all the pain.

Sorry that's not more specifc, but not knowing you any better than I do, I hesitate to make any specific recommendations. Maybe you could send me a list of what you think your strengths and weaknesses are? Better still, send me a list of what your coaches think. If you want, PM it. I'll look it over and give you a more well-thought out impression as soon as I can.

Best of luck!

[Ghost]

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

Ghost,
Knowing that you're an experienced fighter and you probably have your own work ideas, I don't want to talk down to you at all. There are some things I'd recommend to make the transition smoother, though. MMA is usually fought in rounds nearly twice as long as you're used to. A big problem for me switching from kickboxing or boxing to almost anything else was that I had an almost innate rhythm or timing that told me what pace to push in order to fight hard for three minutes. Jumping into longer rounds screwed with my clock a little. I know you'll be training longer rounds in preparation, but that kickboxer's clock will still be ticking in you, so plan on devoting a great deal of time to adding capacity to your gas tank.

I would substitute some of your road work with agility sprints. One of the easiest ways of doing it is to stack up sprints of varying distances and change up the footwork as you do so. Model each of these on an increasing scale that goes from shortest distance to longest in the following gradients:

40 meters
60 meters
100 meters
200 meters
440 meters

A 440 is typically one lap around a soccer field / football field lap track (quarter mile). You can use the yardage marks on the field for the other distances. Bear in mind, these are sprints, and should be run balls to the wall, all out.

Start with straight running sprints. Go through the routine. Your rest-to-work ratio is about three to one. If the sprint took ten seconds, for example, then rest for 30 seconds. If it took two minutes, rest for six. None should take you two minutes until you start switching up footwork on the 440s.

Next, switch to what I call half-and-halfs. You run half the distance at a forward run and then sharply and quickly snap to a sideways carioca (crossover step) at the halfway mark. Do this twice through to work both sides. On the 440, I recommend sprinting the curves and doing the carioca on the straightaways.

If you have it in you, go through one cycle doing high knees.

Finally, what I'll call front-to-backs. Forward for the first half, then snap around to a backward sprint for the last half. You only need to go through once on this one.

The time it takes to do this is pretty awful since your rest periods will begin to pile up. You'll feel like you're not working hard enough at first, but you'll appreciate it by the end, and you'll reduce the risk of injury. Also, it'll give you a more all-around benefit in terms of strength and not just endurance. The total distance for this cycle is roughly 40 meters shy of a half-mile per set, resting in intervals. That means the whole cycle is around 2.5 miles, but it's all done at a 100% sprint. It's demanding, and it'll improve your ability to fight in bursts like nothing else.

Since you have a solid background in Thai Boxing, I'd also shy away from doing much (any?) straight Thai Boxing sparring. You need to integrate the skills, and that means facing guys who do MMA. Your muay Thai isn't going anywhere, so there's no sense stroking the ol' ego by just doing what you know you're already good at. Replace some of the Thai specific sparring with MMA sparring. Train your Thai boxing all by itself if you want, but train against guys who are trying to shoot, trying to body lock, etc. Finding out how it all fits best for you is going to be your biggest challenge, and it's what will keep the game cerebral for you. You'll have a better understanding of what to do and when and why by integrating and you'll make better choices.

Also, since your Thai boxing is well developed, you might skip some of that and look at a pure boxing gym. Do this more than once a week when you feel you can afford the time. Boxing hands tend to work better in MMA for some reason. Actually, it's because the footwork and placement is different, and boxing teaches you to withdraw your body after the punch to the hitting range again, whereas Thai Boxing is so clinch-competent, they don't worry about it as much. It's not that you want to forget Thai boxing or anything, but I think some straight, unfiltered Western Boxing (especially amateur style, since it focuses more on straight punching) would serve you well.

I'm not suggesting that you change your whole game, because from what I can tell, you've done very well for yourself with the tools and skills you have. However, the things that tend to get muay Thai guys caught in MMA are the things that boxing fixes. Likewise, training against the types of guys you least want to fight will prepare you better than doing what's familiar, even if you do the latter at world-class intensity. Like Vunak used to say, now's the time to get comfortable being uncomfortable. Winning will cure all the pain.

Sorry that's not more specifc, but not knowing you any better than I do, I hesitate to make any specific recommendations. Maybe you could send me a list of what you think your strengths and weaknesses are? Better still, send me a list of what your coaches think. If you want, PM it. I'll look it over and give you a more well-thought out impression as soon as I can.

Best of luck!

Firstly thanks for the detailed response, much appreciated.

That running program looks very good, would you suggest i replace all my runs with this type of training?
I had thought about putting in more sprint training but wasnt to sure about it.

what you say about adding in more boxing makes sense as well. I might swap out the Wednesday evening or maybe the tuesday? and put in another boxing session at a proper boxing gym instead.
Do you think i should try and keep in the wrestling session on Wednesday and lose the thai and MMA session on tuesday?

One thing i noticed was that when guys have good hands in MMA it makes a lot of difference. My boxing is pretty good as i have done a lot in the past of straight western boxing but its lagging slightly due to me having been in thailand so long where they arent as good at punching.

So i think a couple of sessions a week in a boxing gym are definitely in order.
I think the shoot boxing and MMA sessions should help me make the transition fairly well, at least i hope so.
Regarding timing, i know what you mean about the 3 minute round thing. i can time them in my head to within a few seconds lol
However we usually train 5 minute rounds for padwork so we do some longer sessions as well.
Im not sure what is going to be more tiring MMA training or thai boxing. Ive heard people say both ways.

I think ill get this timetable sorted to be most effective.

My strengths are boxing and thai boxing. though i need a brush up on my boxing a little though its still good, i spent about 7 years at a boxing gym previously.

I have a crap ground game and anti-grappling defense. and i mean crap. Its what ive ignored so thats why im trying to focus so much on it in the program. Id like to keep some of the thai sessions in but if im tired and not up to it its the thai sessions that will come out and be replaced with rests and food.

Basically right now id like to know which evening to replace with a boxing session and how many times to do the sprint training you have listed.

Here is a video for london shootfighters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjzU7NLh7Yw

Does that look like sensible tuition of that technique?

[DickHardman]

i think you should not compete in mma. i think you should put on the gi and train in jiu jitsu or judo instead, or possibly both. im not a mma guy, i dont even enjoy watching mma to be honest, im just around it constantly because of the gym i train at. i just like martial arts and train for self defense. i think it would be way cooler to wear a gi with a black belt that you achieved, and dedicate yourself to an awesome art and master it.

[jubaji]

Well, that was pretty fucking helpful.


If your weakness is grappling devote at least 60% of your time to it, because it don't come easy or quick no matter what anyone tells you.

Of course, if your goal is fighting MMA, then actually getting in there and getting as many realy matches as possible is going to acclimate you to that context more than anything else.

[DickHardman]

Originally Posted by jubaji

Well, that was pretty fucking helpful.


If your weakness is grappling devote at least 60% of your time to it, because it don't come easy or quick no matter what anyone tells you.

Of course, if your goal is fighting MMA, then actually getting in there and getting as many realy matches as possible is going to acclimate you to that context more than anything else.

how would you know that when you have never even trained in a martial art or discipline in your life??

[Ghost]

Originally Posted by jubaji

Well, that was pretty fucking helpful.


If your weakness is grappling devote at least 60% of your time to it, because it don't come easy or quick no matter what anyone tells you.

Of course, if your goal is fighting MMA, then actually getting in there and getting as many realy matches as possible is going to acclimate you to that context more than anything else.

Thanks,
i think ive got nearly 80% of this ground or ground related, i think the shoot boxing is going to be highly relevant as well as its teaching pure progression from standup to ground in terms of being in an exchange in standup rather than just simply shooting. Plus covers take down defense.
And the pure wrestling will cover a lot of good takedowns i guess too.

Ive been told by others that the sheer volume of technique wil just take time to get, hopefull i will some aptitude towards it due to having done a lot of martial arts before. well see.

Dick, the london fight factory does gi and non gi and you can grade their, the BJJ section is like a proper BJJ club with several black belt instructors so i will have a chance to grade as well, and i intend to.
id like to at least reach blue belt but obviously higher.
Do you know what the average time for a blue belt is, i mean roughly.
i heard it was a couple of years or so, sound right?

[jubaji]

Originally Posted by DickHardman

how would you know that when you have never even trained in a martial art or discipline in your life??

Hilarious. Go hit the bong and STFU you igorant little punk.

[jubaji]

Originally Posted by Ghost

Ive been told by others that the sheer volume of technique wil just take time to get

That's true, but learning a million techniques is not as important as becoming familiar with the range.

[Ghost]

Originally Posted by jubaji

That's true, but learning a million techniques is not as important as becoming familiar with the range.

i understand what you mean, i guess that will mean a lot of drilling and sparring, same as stand up really. Being able to actually do the move, to have it, rather than just be able to demonstrate it.

[DickHardman]

Originally Posted by Ghost

Do you know what the average time for a blue belt is, i mean roughly.
i heard it was a couple of years or so, sound right?

1-3 years. ive seen people get it in 6 months, 1 year, 1.5 years,2.5 years, 3 years etc.... it really depends on how well your mind is able to grasp on to the true meaning of jiu jitsu(some people never will), if so your mind will subconsciously begin to put together all the different positions, techniques, and body movements that you learn to do physically. when this happens and your mind begins to grasp jiu jitsu, it will continue to grow and develop within you even as you are going about your day or laying in asleep in bed, your mind just working it all out so that you can begin to gently "fall into place" and defeat attackers with gentleness and fluidity instead of stiffening up, wasting energy, and trying to fight force with force.

just put on your gi, sit back and open your mind to jiu jitsu. learn to defeat aggressive assholes with superior leverage, technique, position, posture, and technique.

[Mike Brewer]

I wouldn't suggest replacing every running session with sprints, but start with two sessions a week and move up to three sessions by fight time. I don't know when your fight(s) are, so you'll have to build your own peak cycle, but the idea is that three sessions a week should be challenging but do-able. The distance running does what it's supposed to do. It'll give you that durability in your legs. Sprints are less about the aerobic and more about the anaerobic (although it sure doesn't feel like it), so I think you should have both.

As for your boxing nights, if it were me, I'd bracket them on both sides with grappling so you're not beating up the same body parts too much. Maximize training and reduce injuries.

Since you obviously need to focus heavy on your ground game, I think it's wise to work a lot of greco-roman style clinching and upper body stuff (they're better at preventing takedowns and keeping the fight standing than freestyle guys are in my opnion). Learn some basic subs and whatnot, but since hitting is your game, spend time on escapes, reversals, and getting off the floor. If you have a fence to work off of (in the fight, not just the gym), learn to use it to your advantage. The fence is very much like a second opponent if you're not familiar with it.

Don't try to be an all-around fighter the first time out. Focus hard on what you need to do, no matter how alluring it may be to focus on what you want to do. Be able to apply your already developed striking on your feet or on the ground, and as for the ground game, devote all kinds of time to getting to positions where you can hit. You'll have plenty of time to develop a fully evolved ground game as you go along, but in the early stages, play to your strengths. And it's a good idea to have a management team that understands your fighting style and works to match you up with specific types of opponents early on. Just like boxing, the first several fights are your break-in period. Choose the types of opponents that will push you in directions you need pushing, but that you're sure you're on even terms with.

[Ghost]

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

I wouldn't suggest replacing every running session with sprints, but start with two sessions a week and move up to three sessions by fight time. I don't know when your fight(s) are, so you'll have to build your own peak cycle, but the idea is that three sessions a week should be challenging but do-able. The distance running does what it's supposed to do. It'll give you that durability in your legs. Sprints are less about the aerobic and more about the anaerobic (although it sure doesn't feel like it), so I think you should have both.

As for your boxing nights, if it were me, I'd bracket them on both sides with grappling so you're not beating up the same body parts too much. Maximize training and reduce injuries.

Since you obviously need to focus heavy on your ground game, I think it's wise to work a lot of greco-roman style clinching and upper body stuff (they're better at preventing takedowns and keeping the fight standing than freestyle guys are in my opnion). Learn some basic subs and whatnot, but since hitting is your game, spend time on escapes, reversals, and getting off the floor. If you have a fence to work off of (in the fight, not just the gym), learn to use it to your advantage. The fence is very much like a second opponent if you're not familiar with it.

Don't try to be an all-around fighter the first time out. Focus hard on what you need to do, no matter how alluring it may be to focus on what you want to do. Be able to apply your already developed striking on your feet or on the ground, and as for the ground game, devote all kinds of time to getting to positions where you can hit. You'll have plenty of time to develop a fully evolved ground game as you go along, but in the early stages, play to your strengths. And it's a good idea to have a management team that understands your fighting style and works to match you up with specific types of opponents early on. Just like boxing, the first several fights are your break-in period. Choose the types of opponents that will push you in directions you need pushing, but that you're sure you're on even terms with.

excellent, i didnt even think of trying to structure the way i approach my ground game, probably cos i have so little experience in it. thanks for that and the running yes i think that makes good sense and i know it will be hellish.
I think i will need a good 6 months or so before i can have even a very novice mma fight, though if i can prevent a take down i think i will stand a good chance if i get long enough on my feet.
Anyway thanks for that have some more to think about now.

[Mike Brewer]

No worries, brother. I know you'll do well.

The only reason I make the suggestion I did about the ground is that it's really easy to fall in love with grappling and work it to death. It's loads of fun and you'll pick it up fast, no doubt. Trouble is, if you train it as pure grappling instead of a way to better implement your strengths, you're pursuing a hobby and not training for a fight. As a ring fighter, you gotta do all you can to stack the deck in your favor.

But I don't have to tell you that...

[Michael Wright]

For your stand up I'm sure you know better than I the best places.

Ground, for MMA so no Gi, London Shootfighters certainly have a good rep. London Pancrase in Finsbury Park with Jess Laudin is excellent, I used to train there briefly. Erik Paulson's guys in London, Matt and James, are excellent coaches - you may know them from The Academy. There is of course Neil Mcleod, I'm sure you know how awesome he is, ex British Value Tudo champ and full instructor under Erik. I have to recomend Roger Gracie's Academy, although it may have more focus on Gi their guys still do very very well at no Gi, Roger himself being an ADCC champion.

To be honest you are spoilt for choice, but I thought you were moving to The North?