Exploiting weaknesses

[Tant01]

IF MMA is about having a well rounded "game" it is equally about exploiting the holes in other "games"... BJJ, boxing, wrestling, Kick boxing, Thai fighting, etc...

We all know you can close and grapple with a striker to negate his tools, take down a kicker and subdue him on the ground.

Today it's about being competent in every range. The major separation is stand up and ground fighting.

What weaknesses do you find in modern MMA? What's your strategy for defeating a well rounded fighter?

Lets keep STREET stuff out. No knives or eye gouging crap? Throat strikes, fish hooks groin shots...etc.

How do you exploit RULES? I'm not up to speed on BJJ tournament rules or points systems so some help there from competitors would be great to fill some holes in my game.

Strategy to exploit rules or weaknesses in the games themselves?

Thanks all.

[Bjjexpertise@be]

I dunno about other sports but in BJJ wrestlers tend to be the biggest exploit to competition rules. Take someone down, get your two points and either stand back up and stall it out or just hug them for dear life and pretend to be doing something.

In Judo from what I've seen the biggest problem is the stalling method on the ground. The second someone hits the ground they immediately turn on their belly and turtle up. I know that groundwork isn't the main focus of judo but it is still a part of judo nevertheless.

[TTEscrima]

Originally Posted by Tant01

Lets keep STREET stuff out. No knives or eye gouging crap? Throat strikes, fish hooks groin shots...etc.

You take all the fun out of everything. I have this vision of Bugs Bunny...

[DickHardman]

as someone with striking skills, i take immediate notice if someone is afraid of getting hit or is forced to stop momentarily to cover up or defend when punches are coming at him. this is the signal to move in. a good striker will be able to keep moving and working while punches are coming at him and he is also able to both defend and attack at the same time, he will not stop like the "deer caught in the headlights" nor will he cover up completely.

a good example is this recent fight between mike bisping and charles mccarthy. mccarthy is a grappler while bisping is a solid striker. here we can see mccarthy completely cover up when strikes were coming his way, allowing bisping to take advantage by grabbing him and delivering knees. mccarthy is a tough guy, but realistically how many strikes are you going to be able to withstand while covered up like that???

Michael Bisping Vs Charles McCarthy Fight Video UFC 83 | MMA TKO

[Mike Brewer]

I honestly think the three areas MMA athletes could stand to best exploit are:

• Boxing
• Use of the Fence
• Stalling

No one in MMA - NO ONE - presently has punching that's worth a damn in comparison to top level boxers. Some can hit hard, and some have better hands than others. But so many fights are won via striking these days, that I think a guy with tuned-up, technical striking skills would have a real edge. In my opinion, if you took some of the top fighters like Rich Franklin, Quinton Jackson, etc. and stuck them in isolation with an Amateur boxing coach the likes of an Al Mitchell, they'd be devastating fighters. They're already devastating fighters, so maybe I need a different word. Put plainly, even the good strikers in MMA right now couldn't hold their own with their hands in a tough amateur boxing field. I'm not saying it's the only flaw, and I'm not saying it makes or breaks the game. All I'm saying is that the percentage of people getting knocked down/out by strikes these days is on the rise, and better, more technical punches would go a long way toward capitalizing on an apparent weakness.

Using the fence is something a lot of people currently do. Still, it's got room to improve. I'd like to see someone develop more ideas around using the fence to get back on the feet, using it to defend one side or another against attack, and using it to facilitate attacks from the top. Again, this is something fighters do now, but something that could be better. The fence is almost like having a weapon if you're skilled at using it. If you make it a specialty and train in methods that are specifically geared toward using the fence against your opponents, you take away the comfort zone in the outside range and around the outside of the cage. Another advantage - like using terrain in street fights, for example.

And finally, people need to get better about stalling when they get taken down and want to stand back up. Call it the John Ruiz school of thought. It's a matter of doing what you want to do, and making everything the other guy wants to do look boring. Get the crowd booing every time you get taken down, and the ref will stand you up faster. Look bored, be as still as you can, don't throw anything, and tie the other guy up so he can't either. Learning to stall - to overcome the urge to get busy no matter where you are - would help some of the guys who don't grapple as well.

The idea in my mind is to use as many advantages and tools as you can find. The things you can use in the ring are position (getting to where judges are semi-blind when you want to cheat, or where they can see really well when you want to score), the ref, and the ring itself. There are dirty tricks boxers use all the time, like having a corner really soak you with water back in the corner. Then the fighter comes out and bounces some of that water off right on the big silk-creened logo painted on the center of the mat so it's slicker than hell for his opponent. Things like that are advantages if you can use them. Playing the crowd and the ref are also old-time tools that really work well. Stalling and having to constantly reset after you've scored leaves the judges seeing only the shots you score! If your game is standing and you're fighting a BJ Penn, then it would do you well to learn how to stall and influence the ref to stand you up as often as possible.

It's tough to do, but the best fighters have always been the ones that didn't fight alone. They used the ring, the crowd, their cornermen, and even the ref and judges to influence their tactics. When it's all that against one guy? You're ahead.

[DickHardman]

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

Using the fence is something a lot of people currently do. Still, it's got room to improve. I'd like to see someone develop more ideas around using the fence to get back on the feet, using it to defend one side or another against attack, and using it to facilitate attacks from the top. Again, this is something fighters do now, but something that could be better. The fence is almost like having a weapon if you're skilled at using it. If you make it a specialty and train in methods that are specifically geared toward using the fence against your opponents, you take away the comfort zone in the outside range and around the outside of the cage. Another advantage - like using terrain in street fights, for example.

mma fighters do wall drills all the time now. its become an area of fighting of its own. you start with one parter held up against the wall, and you both fight for position and try to get the other guy up against the wall, reversing positions and trying to score takedowns and strikes in between etc..... it has SD value as well inmop...


the idea isnt new though. i remember back in the day in tkd and karate they would teach us techniques that utilized the walls as a weapon. like throwing people into walls, slamming the heads into walls etc....

[Mike Brewer]

They also box all the time and use the ref, too. I didn't say they didn't do it. I just think they could expand on it and do it better. Maybe assign one of your better guys to just spending two months figuring out all the different ways you could use the fence? Something like that. Break out of "what everybody already does" and see if you can expand the game.

Know what I mean?

[jubaji]

I hear people compare MMA fighters to boxers a lot in terms of punching, but I wonder how much is context-dependent. I don't think any of the top MMA guys would win against top amateur boxers in a boxing match (and I don't think any of the top guys would even place in a top amateur wrestling comp either - including the ones who were top wrestlers in their college days), but to what extent should they even want to? Put a great pro boxer in a top-level MMA fight and he'll get killed because he'll be boxing (assuming for some reason he would just try to box and nothing else) and be kicked and kneed and taken down and submitted at will. The movement, positioning, set up and recovery throwing punches are all based on a boxing context where defending takedowns (for example) are not a consideration. I think if you took a top boxer and had him cross train for MMA for a year he'd end up looking a lot more like exactly what goes on now than you expect.

Maybe.

[HERQ454]

Alot of the guys in UFC have done some boxing and some have fought 'pro'.Many have top level (not the best) Boxing coaches.
The skill set you want to see happen I dont think occurs because of the structure of the sport.Boxers only have to worry about the other guys hands,Kickboxers have to worry about hands and feet.Thai boxers,add knees and elbows.MMA,add tackdowns,submissions.

Imagine the top Formula one driver,Mika Hakkinen swapping with the top World Rallycar Driver,Sebastien Loeb.Both have outstanding Driving skills,reflexes,eye-hand co-ordination.
But could both drive the others vehicles to the same level as their own?
Of course not.
Combat sport participants are specialist in their particular fields.

[HERQ454]

Strategy wise,attack the weakest link.
Isnt what these guys are doing in watching the tapes of their opponents?

Even if they are 'well rounded' you would then exploit your specific strength/field of expertise.Go with what you know.

[Mike Brewer]

Originally Posted by jubaji

I hear people compare MMA fighters to boxers a lot in terms of punching, but I wonder how much is context-dependent. I don't think any of the top MMA guys would win against top amateur boxers in a boxing match (and I don't think any of the top guys would even place in a top amateur wrestling comp either - including the ones who were top wrestlers in their college days), but to what extent should they even want to? Put a great pro boxer in a top-level MMA fight and he'll get killed because he'll be boxing (assuming for some reason he would just try to box and nothing else) and be kicked and kneed and taken down and submitted at will. The movement, positioning, set up and recovery throwing punches are all based on a boxing context where defending takedowns (for example) are not a consideration. I think if you took a top boxer and had him cross train for MMA for a year he'd end up looking a lot more like exactly what goes on now than you expect.

Maybe.

Very, very good points. But there is no reason MMA fighters can't tune their hands up. I mean, when the game started, the whole argument was that people had to be really good at their chosen art. Everybody wanted to be better at grappling because "grappling" beat "striking." When people got better at striking, that changed. There was an increase in ability that changed the field, and I don't see any reason at all that you can increase it further in the future.

What I see a lot of is guys without proper punching ability - meaning the defensive, offensive, and counter-offensive aspects of hte game that are taught in boxing. The reason I'd recommend amateur boxing instead of professional gyms is because amateurs tend to stress straight punching in long range over the shorter punches and in-fighting of the pros. MMA athletes have lots of tools in close, and they shouldn't become fixated on punches when they get close enough to do other, more damaging things. But there's a hole in the game right now, and it's right at the end of punching range. Boxing training - focused, solid amateur boxing skills like those taught to the Olympic program - would really make a dramatic difference. I'll stand by that so firmly that I'll wager the next big superstar generation of strikers are going to rely more on traditional boxing for their strikes than they will Muay Thai and other methods.

[fire cobra]

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

Very, very good points. But there is no reason MMA fighters can't tune their hands up. I mean, when the game started, the whole argument was that people had to be really good at their chosen art. Everybody wanted to be better at grappling because "grappling" beat "striking." When people got better at striking, that changed. There was an increase in ability that changed the field, and I don't see any reason at all that you can increase it further in the future.

What I see a lot of is guys without proper punching ability - meaning the defensive, offensive, and counter-offensive aspects of hte game that are taught in boxing. The reason I'd recommend amateur boxing instead of professional gyms is because amateurs tend to stress straight punching in long range over the shorter punches and in-fighting of the pros. MMA athletes have lots of tools in close, and they shouldn't become fixated on punches when they get close enough to do other, more damaging things. But there's a hole in the game right now, and it's right at the end of punching range. Boxing training - focused, solid amateur boxing skills like those taught to the Olympic program - would really make a dramatic difference. I'll stand by that so firmly that I'll wager the next big superstar generation of strikers are going to rely more on traditional boxing for their strikes than they will Muay Thai and other methods.

Personally i think MMA athletes should work more from a Muay Thai base than a boxing base,part of this reasoning is history has shown that if you put a good boxer and a good Thai boxer in a ring(eg K1 rules) 95% of the time the Thai Boxer wins,why not develop your Punch,Kick,Knee and elbow as opposed to just your hands? .

Anderson Silva is the closest to this at the moment,a decent Thai boxer and a good Jiu-jitsu man.

Hands in MMA as in Muay Thai are used to Bang not to box,i think it would be hard to box your way through a MMA bout.

[Tant01]

MMA rules with Herb Dean, Nick Diaz and Jake Shields (Video) at UFC blog for UFC news, results, videos, rumors, fights, pics and tickets — MMAmania.com



Fouls:
1. Butting with the head.
2. Eye gouging of any kind.
3. Biting.
4. Hair pulling.
5. Fish hooking.
6. Groin attacks of any kind.
7. Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent.
8. Small joint manipulation.
9. Striking to the spine or the back of the head.
10. Striking downward using the point of the elbow.
11. Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.
12. Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh.
13. Grabbing the clavicle.
14. Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.
15. Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.
16. Stomping a grounded opponent.
17. Kicking to the kidney with the heel.
18. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck.
19. Throwing an opponent out of the ring or fenced area.
20. Holding the shorts or gloves of an opponent.
21. Spitting at an opponent.
22. Engaging in an un sportsmanlike conduct that causes an injury to an opponent.
23. Holding the ropes or the fence.
24. Using abusive language in the ring or fenced area.
25. Attacking an opponent on or during the break.
26. Attacking an opponent who is under the care of the referee.
27. Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat.
28. Flagrantly disregarding the instructions of the referee.
29. Timidity, including, without limitation, avoiding contact with an opponent, intentionally or consistently dropping the mouthpiece or faking an injury.
30. Interference by the corner.
31. Throwing in the towel during competition.

[Tant01]

Ways to victory:

1. Submission by:
Physical tap out.
Verbal tap out.
2. Technical knockout by the referee stopping the contest.
3. Decision via the scorecards, including:
Unanimous decision.
Split decision.
Majority decision.
Draw, including:
Unanimous draw.
Majority draw.
Split draw.
4. Technical decision.
5. Technical draw.
6. Disqualification.
7. Forfeit.
8. No contest.

[Tant01]

Points are awarded for certain techniques.


Gaining the "Mount position" is worth 4 points. This is where one competitor sits astride a prone opponent with both legs in a kneeling down position. The bottom competitor is lying on his back. This is considered highly advantageous in a vale tudo or streetfight situation, so is awarded accordingly.

Gaining the "Rear Mount position" is worth 4 points. This is where one competitor sits astride a prone opponent, who is lying face down with both legs in a kneeling down position. This is considered highly advantageous in a vale tudo or streetfight situation, so is awarded accordingly.

"Passing the guard" is worth 3 points. The guard is a position where one competitor lying on their back wraps their legs around their opponent who is often kneeling between the legs. Opponent is in "your" guard if the opponent is in between your legs. "Passing the guard" consists of getting out of the opponent's "guard" position (opponent with legs wrapped around your trunk) and going to the "cross-side" position or "side-mount" using various techniques. "Side-mount" position consists of one competitor lying prone on their back with their opponent on top in a relative perpendicular position keeping the bottom competitor down.

"Takedown" is worth 2 points. Bringing down your opponent from the standing position using footsweeps, judo throws, tackles while you maintain an "advantageous" position.

"Knee-on-stomach" position is worth 2 points. Often from the "cross-side" position, the competitor on top "jumps" up and places one knee on the bottom competitor's stomach to keep him down. From this position, the top competitor can choke and of course strike the face in a vale tudo or streetfight situation.

"Sweeps" is worth 2 points. Using the legs to reverse the opponent in your guard to the bottom position while you get on top.


Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Tournament Rules