Realities of knife fighting

[Ryu (non-working password]

My father, now a model husband and parent, etc. Had a violent streak when he was young, and lived in a broken home. He has been in at least 3 or 4 real knife fights when he was in his 20's. Though he's 61 now, he still finds time to occasionally train with me, and offer his experiences. He frowns on knife fighting, and doesn't like to practice it, but today we did some knife sparring, and both of us got cut up rather badly (figuratively of course).
Even though I invest just as much time training with knives as I do in grappling and judo, I really have come to understand the grim reality of a knife fight between two skilled people. First of all, your skill level does NOT give you that much of an advantage in a knife fight. Unless the man thrusts at you like a karate blackbelt, the knife will be moving around in confusing directions and patterns, and can be snapped out at any angle.
Second,
Defanging the snake will a lot of times end in a mutual cutting of arms... This is something Paul Vunak doesn't seem to stress in his videos. A lot of the time, you will succeed in cutting the opponent's arm, but will inevitably suffer a cut artery yourself as well. This means that you may end the fight and win, but will bleed to death soon if not immediately helped...
Third,
A fight can be over in an instant if someone is adept at THROWING knives. However this is dangerous as you can lose your only means of defense.
There is not a whole lot of "fancy footwork" necessarily in a real knife fight. It becomes more of a cat-like "stalking" and looking for an opening to score. Bouncing around like I've seen some people do on certain videos does have its advantages, but it is easy to get "stop-hit" yourself with a well placed cut. Though footwork is essential in order to get your body away from danger.
Fourth is intimidation. Your fine motor skills will most likely fail in a knife fight. It's scary enough to feel like you're fighting in slow motion using just empty hands...but imagine having that same "freeze" when knives are involved...

I am no knife expert by any means. Neither is my father who has luckily survived knife fights against less than skilled individuals. The mentality of "I'm a tough knife fighter" is really fake in my opinion.... Just like the samurai of old Japan, most of the duels did not end in one man over another...but usually in mutual killing. One samurai was cut down, and the other mortally wounded until he died shortly after, or both killing each other at the same time. Or maimed for life.

It's gruesome business. I don't know my point of this post haha, but I figure I'd write some of my thoughts down.

Take care,
Ryu

[Shimora]

Paul Vunak does not tell you many things in his instructionals. I think he's mainly interested in making a few bucks to support his "lifestyle" more so than genuinly interested in teaching the best methods.

Defanging the snake is a very effective defense although i agree the chance of both fighters being cut is there. I have always found that it is best to wait for the opponent to commit himself to a slash or a stab first before attempting a defang. I have never been cut while defanging the snake and I dont consider myself a great knife fighter. As for you winning but still bleeding to death well at least you got the other guy. If you were trying to defend loved ones at least you would still have saved them.

Knife fighting has become a mystical art which even martial artists are scared to encounter. I think a lot of it is attitude. It is not that difficult to grab the knofe out of the attackers hand by grabbing the blade itself. This is most effective with single edged blades, sure you will cut your hand but you most likely will live.

I am pleased to read that you practice knife fighting/knife defense. it is things like this which set us true Martial Artists apart from the sport guys like BJJers, Wrestlers and Boxers.

[Redneck]

Good post Ryu. I also study knife as one of my martial arts. I agree with what you are saying.
What do you use for training knives?

[ArAi]

hey i train knife fighting too...
first was introduced to it by a jkd instructor...all he ever taught us was some simple slashes and then we just sparred...that is where i got to learn the most from...
he did not teach us any of the fancy disarms ...

When you guys talk about defangging the snake...what move is this? Is this where you slash your knife towards the attacker's hand that is holding his knife?

[Water Dragon]

I've heard of grabbing a live balde in a number of places. I've never tried it but the logic is "Well, where do YOU want to get cut ?" Supposedly the cut will not be that bad as opposed to what else could happen.

[bobby_steeles]

if i am walking through a bad neighborhood, i'll usually grab one of those garbage can lids with the handles on it and carry it with me to use as a shield in case someone attacks me with a knife or shoots at me.

[hounddog]

Why carry a knife when you can carry a gun? I just don't understand.

[Lithp]

It's illegal to carry guns in some parts of the country (and all of Canada).

Excellent thoughts. I've practiced knife fighting through JKD, but when we spar it's a totally different story. I'm way too preoccupied with the thought of getting cut.

[hounddog]

Where is it illegal to carry a gun but not a knife in the US?

[Ryu (non-working password]

This is also scary...

In a recent Black Belt issue, there was a study done in real life knive attacks, etc. Thirty six percent of blade encounters involve grappling, compared with 38 percent of all violence. Twenty five percent of blade grappling situations are defensive draws from the clinch or by a mounted floor fighter. Most draws successful are from pocket draws. Most unsuccessful draws are from a case, belt, sheath, etc.

Ryu

[Lithp]

I believe you're not allowed to carry a concealed weapon in Ohio, Illinois, Michigan. Anybody can carry a pocket knife in all states.

[bobby_steeles]

i thought it was illegal in all states. didn't jay z just get arrested in ny for a concealed weapon?

[Water Dragon]

You can carry a handgun in Indiana, but it must be concealed.

[Ryu (non-working password]

Redneck,
I usually use wooden replica knives, gloves, and face mask for full contact sparring.
We also occasionally use industrial markers to see who's getting cut, etc.

As far as solo training, I use real knives, and will either just "shadow box" or cut dummies, meat, cartons filled with liquid (you want to have a knife that your hand will not slip on if it gets wet)

Take care,
Ryu

[hounddog]

I'm sorry Ryu. I am just picturing you shadow boxing and stabbing meat and wondering what the hell you are thinking. It doesn't seem like a very productive/practical way to train. I guess you want to be like your Dad. To each their own.