Opinions on most destructive submission grappling techniques

Heroic Wolf · 07-02-2008, 07:03 PM

I was wondering what everybody thought was the most destructive type of submission grappling technique. Various sources, people I know, and personal experience seem to agree that as far as submitting someone goes, pressure points, tendon/muscle destructions (bicep slicer, calf crusher, etc), joint locks/breaks, and chokes seem the worst. Any ideas?

Tant01 · 07-08-2008, 09:54 AM

The MOST destructive? Hmmm A neck crank can kill someone in fairly short order...

A knee bar can cripple like any other joint lock if you INTEND to DESTROY it.

I often say the difference between "submission" and DESTRUCTION is a few pounds of torque (OR INTENT)

I've had good results with Kanibasami...

**Britt** · 07-08-2008, 10:55 AM

Seems like the most destructive would have to be neck cranks and strangles/chokes. A heel hook or knee bar can maim you for life, but a guillotine can crush your trachea and kill you, and an RNC from a sufficiently motivated attacker can clamp off your carotid and also kill you. Can't get much more destructive than that.

jasculs · 07-08-2008, 11:21 AM

Neck cranks and muscle slicers are very dangerous....The main leg lock that is dangerous is a heel hook.

All subs are dangerous but these listed above can have a fine line between hurting you or not hurting you.

Tant01 · 07-08-2008, 11:23 AM

There was a video clip floating around of a poorly executed spine lock a while ago. Broke the poor guy's back!

In the interest of accuracy a "crank" applies pressure to the vertibra and can cause dislocation, a choke or strangle hold closes off the trachea or blood flow (or both) by constriction.

Tant01 · 07-08-2008, 12:49 PM

YouTube Video

**Britt** · 07-08-2008, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tant01

There was a video clip floating around of a poorly executed spine lock a while ago. Broke the poor guy's back!

In the interest of accuracy a "crank" applies pressure to the vertibra and can cause dislocation, a choke or strangle hold closes off the trachea or blood flow (or both) by constriction.

Yep. I've got a pinched nerve in my neck from a tad-too-enthusiastic neck crank back in April, and it's still making my shoulder and left arm all tingly. The missus suggested I get a massage this weekend and see if it will loosen up.

treelizard · 07-08-2008, 03:39 PM

Someone got me in a spine lock today and it wasn't quite that bad... I just tapped quickly.

Heel hooks, neck cranks, knee bars. In that order probably.

Bjjexpertise@be · 07-08-2008, 09:26 PM

Kneebars are scary when you get caught in a good one. Not a very pleasant feeling at all to feel your entire leg straightened out like that.

Marksmarkou · 07-09-2008, 04:04 AM

Well a neck crank done properly is probably the most destructive. But a blood choke left on for 20 seconds or so can kill someone. Joint locks "destruct" joints so they can also be seen as destrcutive. the thing is you still live with joint damadge so they are not as bad as a blood choke or neck crank

Adept · 07-09-2008, 06:01 AM

Neck crank or choke hold.

Ironic thing about applying a choke is that you won't feel the 'pain' but when left on, is more fatal than a joint destruction.

Tant01 · 07-09-2008, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adept

Neck crank or choke hold.

Ironic thing about applying a choke is that you won't feel the 'pain' but when left on, is more fatal than a joint destruction.

In all honesty... that depends on who(m?) is applying the choke.

Some guys are gentle, that's true! You may not feel "much" pain before you're unconscious. However, STRANGLE holds can be MOST painful and often induce PANICK.

There are various methods of combining tracheal and carotid strangles with a spine lock! Certain positions enhance the efficiency of these combined techniques .

For instance... (sorry to rant) Your BJJ/GJJ "guard" (closed) is itself a strangulation method (trunk squeezing) from judo

If you take a reverse naked choke you apply pressure to his throat and neck discs by isolating his trunk with your legs, you can also lean rearward to torque both the front of his neck by compression and constriction. At the same time you are cranking his discs with this rearward force!

Guillotine? GYAKU-HISHIGI(?)

Judo students are closely supervised and usually START learning these (**dislocations**) at BROWN belt level.

Can we say "Potentially DEADLY"?

Word for JUDOINFO dot com!
Judo Techniques: Judo Info Site

treelizard · 07-09-2008, 02:25 PM

Oh yeah, face cranks kind of suck too... or face locks or whatever they're called.

Adept · 07-09-2008, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tant01

Some guys are gentle, that's true! You may not feel "much" pain before you're unconscious. However, STRANGLE holds can be MOST painful and often induce PANICK.

Right...okay.

I still prefer to go through a strangulation 'pain' than a joint lock pain.

Maybe it's an opinion, who knows.

My neighbor just finished watching Batman Begins and is in sheer amazement. It came out in 2005 and it is now 2008. That newb.

treelizard · 07-09-2008, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adept

Neck crank or choke hold.

One of my buddies had pain on the side of his neck for about a year due to neck cranks.

View Poll Results: What is the most destructive submission grappling technique?
Pressure points	0	0%
Muscle/tendon slicing attacks	1	12.50%
Joint locks/breaks	1	12.50%
Choking	4	50.00%
The above are all equally destructive, different situations call for different techniques	2	25.00%
Voters: 8. You may not vote on this poll

07-02-2008, 07:03 PM	#1 (permalink)
Heroic Wolf Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Location: WA, USA Posts: 115	Opinions on most destructive submission grappling techniques I was wondering what everybody thought was the most destructive type of submission grappling technique. Various sources, people I know, and personal experience seem to agree that as far as submitting someone goes, pressure points, tendon/muscle destructions (bicep slicer, calf crusher, etc), joint locks/breaks, and chokes seem the worst. Any ideas?

07-08-2008, 09:54 AM	#2 (permalink)
Tant01 Humble Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Northern Ca. USA Posts: 4,927	The MOST destructive? Hmmm A neck crank can kill someone in fairly short order... A knee bar can cripple like any other joint lock if you INTEND to DESTROY it. I often say the difference between "submission" and DESTRUCTION is a few pounds of torque (OR INTENT) I've had good results with Kanibasami... __________________ "In all countries where personal freedom is valued, however much each individual may rely on legal redress, the right of each to carry arms - and these the best and the sharpest - for his own protection in case of extremity, is a right of nature indelible and irrepressible, and the more it is sought to be repressed the more it will recur." James Paterson

07-08-2008, 11:21 AM	#4 (permalink)
jasculs Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 10	Neck cranks and muscle slicers are very dangerous....The main leg lock that is dangerous is a heel hook. All subs are dangerous but these listed above can have a fine line between hurting you or not hurting you. __________________ Central New Jersey Brazilian Jiu Jitsu (BJJ) www.GrapplersGuide.com

07-08-2008, 11:23 AM	#5 (permalink)
Tant01 Humble Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Northern Ca. USA Posts: 4,927	There was a video clip floating around of a poorly executed spine lock a while ago. Broke the poor guy's back! In the interest of accuracy a "crank" applies pressure to the vertibra and can cause dislocation, a choke or strangle hold closes off the trachea or blood flow (or both) by constriction. __________________ "In all countries where personal freedom is valued, however much each individual may rely on legal redress, the right of each to carry arms - and these the best and the sharpest - for his own protection in case of extremity, is a right of nature indelible and irrepressible, and the more it is sought to be repressed the more it will recur." James Paterson

07-08-2008, 10:55 AM	#3 (permalink)
Britt Premiere Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 572	Seems like the most destructive would have to be neck cranks and strangles/chokes. A heel hook or knee bar can maim you for life, but a guillotine can crush your trachea and kill you, and an RNC from a sufficiently motivated attacker can clamp off your carotid and also kill you. Can't get much more destructive than that.

07-08-2008, 03:39 PM	#8 (permalink)
treelizard Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: the desert Posts: 3,404	Someone got me in a spine lock today and it wasn't quite that bad... I just tapped quickly. Heel hooks, neck cranks, knee bars. In that order probably. __________________ http://www.dirttime.org http://morewomeninmma.blogspot.com

07-08-2008, 09:26 PM	#9 (permalink)
Bjjexpertise@be Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: florida Posts: 1,813	Kneebars are scary when you get caught in a good one. Not a very pleasant feeling at all to feel your entire leg straightened out like that. __________________ Mike Brewer's 2008 Athleticon Challenge!!! 45563 Pushups Completed 45563 Situps Completed

07-09-2008, 04:04 AM	#10 (permalink)
Marksmarkou Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 58	Well a neck crank done properly is probably the most destructive. But a blood choke left on for 20 seconds or so can kill someone. Joint locks "destruct" joints so they can also be seen as destrcutive. the thing is you still live with joint damadge so they are not as bad as a blood choke or neck crank __________________ Marks markstraining.com - Fighting and Training Methods for Unarmed Martial Artists

07-09-2008, 06:01 AM	#11 (permalink)
Adept Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Fort Gordon, GA Posts: 143	Neck crank or choke hold. Ironic thing about applying a choke is that you won't feel the 'pain' but when left on, is more fatal than a joint destruction.

07-09-2008, 02:25 PM	#13 (permalink)
treelizard Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: the desert Posts: 3,404	Oh yeah, face cranks kind of suck too... or face locks or whatever they're called. __________________ http://www.dirttime.org http://morewomeninmma.blogspot.com

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