Police Training?

[Mik_36]

Hi,

Pardon my ignorance on the subject but my cousin and I were talking about this, so I thought I would ask about this here:

So I wonder if anyone here knows what kind of Martial Arts most POLICE (not military) use, or does it vary greatly depending on the department.

I think they use a lot of wrist and joint locks and some pressure point stuff and alot of their own restraining techniques, but I just know that from watching COPS once in a while.

Let me know if anyone knows.

[John Bennett]

Our local police academy has a large "groundfighting" component in it's curriculum.

Forum member Klif is a LEO tactics instructor and Gracie Blue Belt. He likes jiu-jitsu.

Forum member Hawk has been in some pretty nasty LEO situations and he swears by jiu-jitsu.

The guy who turned me on to GJJ back in the early 90's in an MD and reserve deputy. He likes jiu-jitsu.

A lot of cops like some of the aikidoish wrist holds. They work for cops because arrestees are usually at least minimally compliant and respond well to pain inducing techniques.

Like you, I noticed on the show "Cops" that when a thug really goes on a tear, you see the cops take the guy to the ground and start using techs that look a lot like BJJ.

I wouldn't make a good cop because I'm too much of a chicken and have little sympathy for hard-heads. I would have a tendency to shoot first and ask questions later. City administrators hate that because it costs them a lot of money.

[LEGION]

Originally posted by John Bennett

Like you, I noticed on the show "Cops" that when a thug really goes on a tear, you see the cops take the guy to the ground and start using techs that look a lot like BJJ.

Tow guys pinning a drunk down with their knees in the back of his neck while three others beat and handcuff him is BJJ? I must be training at the wrong gym....

[John Bennett]

That's one of the priciples of BJJ ...always work to maintain superior position.

Another is to pin the guy with your knee while you do your thang, be that setting up a submission, G&P, or handcuffing.

It's cool how effective cops are with the ground techniques when the majority of them don't train at all.

On the other hand, one of our local cops got his head smashed while trying to remove a drunk from the local Whataburger because he didn't know the simple mount escape.

Hey Legion, I see you're from Texas. Where do you train?!

[bobby_steeles]

Originally posted by John Bennett

It's cool how effective cops are with the ground techniques when the majority of them don't train at all.

whenever i see them on tv, it's like 6 cops who can't even take some skinny bastid down and then have a hell of a time controlling the guy.
i rarely see them go for the guy's waist. they instead try to pull him down by his arms. is that because they might get their gun taken away if they go for the legs/waist?

[Hawk]

I would say most (80%) of law enforcement are not in the condition they should be in. However, most of your elite units within the large Police Forces are in excellent shape. GJJ/BJJ is the best I've seen for LE if its hand to hand. A bad guy pumped on pain killers feels no pain, however he's pretty easy to choke out. Some LE don't allow chokes which is stupid IMO since you are putting your officer at risk against someone hopped up. The G.R.A.P.L.E. program that Torrance puts on is the best program for hand to hand I've seen offered to LE.
Hawk

[Mik_36]

Hi Hawk,

I read your web page previously so it sounds like your definately the ideal guy to ask about Law Enforcement Martial Arts.

So for the average beat cop in a smaller city of say 200-300 thousand (so NOT an elite officer). What would his skills likely be.

Obviously they wouldn't have alot of striking training, due to lawsuits etc. (pardon my ignorance if I'm off on that).

Would the average cop like this just have the basic ground skills. Like would he be trained with basic BJJ skills.

Or again does his training really vary largely depending on which city department it is, (i.e. each has very different training).

Like I said before, they would likely do alot of wrist and joint locks, right? Would they do Pressure Points?

Thanx for any info you have time to give,

Mike

[Hawk]

Mik_36,
In a city that size from what I've seen the officers get some type hand to hand at the academy, but after that they are pretty much on their own. I don't know any police force that has a curriculum for hand to hand.
Hawk

[bobby_steeles]

Originally posted by Hawk
Some LE don't allow chokes which is stupid IMO since you are putting your officer at risk against someone hopped up.

why would they not allow chokes? could it be because too many cops were going around choking people unnecessarily?

[Hawk]

Bobby,
The thing I recall is a guy had a heart attack while being choked which followed with a lawsuit. From the facts I heard the guy definitely needed to be restrained, however the officer was not properly trained and was strangling the guy which caused him to panic and there you are.
Hawk

[Karlinhos]

when i was a white belt (getting ready to transition to blue) i was sparring against a guy who was an l.a. county sheriff. i was on my back, he went for the traditional guard pass, left his arm out there and i traigled him. he tried to power his way out, but realized it was tap or go nighty-nite.

well, he kept training diligently and i kinda backed off. i saw him a couple of years ago and needless to say he was a 3-stripe blue and could surely hand me my ass. i beat him when i could! (lol)

the post that triggered this story was hawk's post stating that after the academy some cops are pretty much on their own when it comes to training and it got me thinking about that guy. but hey, at least i can go around bragging that i choked out an l.a. county sheriff! (lmao)

[klif]

The average cop doesn't train at all.

The academy teaches simple takedown and restraints wrong, then make the recruits box for two - two minute rounds. Woweeee some training. Then they do PPCT which is a bunch of useless crap. They get on the street and there is NO follow up training of any kind unless you seek it out yourself.

I have been teaching a four hour block on simple ground escapes for the past couple of years. It's part of a "required" in service training for some agencies here. They take a week (40 hours) of training and my part is only four hours. Most of them bitch, moan, gripe, and hate it. It has to all be done at "slow" speed with no resitance. Seems too many cops tend to get an On the Job Injury from defensive tactis. Some appreciate it but never follow up. I give everyone that goes through the class Hawk's number and location. After about four hundred cops, one has joined and is now a blue belt.

Cops are usually spoiled by pepper spray, sticks, flashlights, and back up. They dont think they need anything else.

[aseepish]

Here both law enforcement and the military train in... TKD! This is something that my instructor has been trying to change for a long time, but it's an insiders club, and all of the insiders are TKD people. Some police officers have the option to take some aikido, but not too many do.

Then again, the police here don't really need it. After all, they still cary .38s.

From what I've seen of the Canadian (well, Vancouver Police department - a buddy of mine was going to the academy while we were training together) training, there is a lot of emphasis on "stuns" - hard strikes to the major muscles to cause temporary loss of use (sound like destructions to anyone), and the usual locks/restraints. Choking is a big no-no, the rear naked choke is not legal for officers to use.

-Tony

[Decado]

We teach hand strikes and kicks. The hand strikes vary from the Jab & Cross to hammer fists & open palm strikes. The kicks are the Muay Thai round kick & foot jab.

Then we teach locking techniques. We also teach them to use Headbutts, Knees & Elbows in trapping range. There is also a groundfighting segment.
The ground fighting seems to be the most popular with the cadets. We do not however teach chokes. I wish we could because they are so effective.

Of course we also teach baton and handcuffing. We also show them pressure points they can use for locking and come-alongs.

They are basically on their own after the academy and sadly very few continue to train or stay in shape.

[Rippedfat]

The Roycal Canadian Mounted Police spend much of their self defence itinerary on ground fighting. Most of the instructors have taken the Gracie Grapple Course and the Gracie tapes are available for all recruits to review at our Academy in Regina, Saskatchewan. They also spend time with boxing and some stand up kicking and punching, (the traditional Karate stuff). From personal experience I have found that the technique I have used more often then any other is the rear carotid choke. Very effective and quickly allows you to take control of the suspect, (barring that he/she is not armed). Hawk is right though, most officers are in poor physical condition and they do not take the time to train even though our department allows for workouts on company time. The new generation recruits seem to take conditioning more seriously and continue in this realm after they graduate. Just my two cents worth.