Reasonable Cardio Except Running?

[Knowledge Bot]

Hi, I'm 32 and in reasonable shape, i do a lot of weight training + some Amateur MMA, i have recently been trying to improve my cardio and noticed how much i suck at running, for some reason my heart rate shoots up to around 180 even when i am running at 9km\h, my cardio is great at rowing and cycling and i have very strong legs but i can't hack running, i have to stop after 7-8 mins and take a breather, i can't figure out why? and ideas also do you think i should give up on running altogether and concentrate on cycling etc??

[ProKarateShop]

Originally Posted by Knowledge Bot

Hi, I'm 32 and in reasonable shape, i do a lot of weight training + some Amateur MMA, i have recently been trying to improve my cardio and noticed how much i suck at running, for some reason my heart rate shoots up to around 180 even when i am running at 9km\h, my cardio is great at rowing and cycling and i have very strong legs but i can't hack running, i have to stop after 7-8 mins and take a breather, i can't figure out why? and ideas also do you think i should give up on running altogether and concentrate on cycling etc??

try jumping rope, or swimming.. also, give speed walking a try until you improve your stamina

[Garland]

this bring up an interesting topic, since I know most people have a different take on this... running over long distance or sprinting? also what would be the acceptable times or distances you'd want if you were training a fighter?

What's an acceptable distance to cover in an hour? in 100 minutes? in 30? what are acceptable sprinting times?

[Tee Sok]

I think that mixing all kinds of running would we good. I run slowly but for a long time one day, and the other run fast but for a shorter time. You could also alternate your running, like run at a slow pace for 5 minutes and sprint for 30 seconds, or run slowly for 3 minutes and sprint for 30 seconds, whatever suits you. Running uphill is great too.
Fighters in my old gym used to run for one hour, cannot tell the distance they covered but I think it shouldn't get under 6miles/10km, then do rope for 30 minutes before getting on with the bag/pad/sparring routines.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Frank Shamrock used to do 10 100 yard dashes, with a 100 yard walk in between. It would make his HR skyrocket, stabalize, skyrocket....so on. It's harder to do than it sounds.

My HR goes out of control when I swim, running is ok. I wish I could swim laps, I don't even bother trying anymore.

[ProKarateShop]

it definitely take some getting used to, but i feel the best after a couple of laps. what about a row machine?

[hoov]

bench stepping is a good cardio and endurance exercise

[chillaplata]

Originally Posted by Garland

this bring up an interesting topic, since I know most people have a different take on this... running over long distance or sprinting? also what would be the acceptable times or distances you'd want if you were training a fighter?

What's an acceptable distance to cover in an hour? in 100 minutes? in 30? what are acceptable sprinting times?

Mr. Mousel made an interesting post on this subject a year or so ago, strongly advocating interval training over distance running. I will see if I can find it.

[chillaplata]

Here it is (the original thread is here):

If the primary objective is speed and power development I am opposed to distance running based on current scientific research and results.

I realize many boxers traditionally run distances of 3-6 miles. That doesn't make it the optimal training method.

There is no need to build a cardio base through distance running. That is an old concept that is detrimental to power and speed development. An increase in cardio (VO2 Max) can be obtained through high intensity interval training. This type of training is much, much better for the speed/power athlete (fighter). It also is more effective at training the same energy systems used in a fight.

Other factors include muscle fiber training and changes associated with the stimulus applied. LSD - Long Slow Distance forces some of the Fast Twitch (Type IIa) fibers to take on certain characteristics of the Slow Twitch (Type I) fibers while high intensity training causes the opposite to occur.

Another "traditional" mistake is to do the running before the technique and speed training. It is not possible to obtain maximal speed and power when the muscles/neuromuscular system is in a fatigued state. Speed and power training should be performed when you are fresh.

Many of the world's greatest athletes use training techniques that are less than optimal. Why? Tradition. It's always been done that way. There are also exceptions to the rule. Imagine how much better these athletes/fighters would be if they trained using the latest training methods and techniques. Most would be at least somewhat better than they are now.

When I started training 2x World Boxing Champ Reggie Johnson, I changed his training regimen dramatically. There are a whole list of things he had done in his training through his early career, including the early morning distance runs. After the new program had time to take effect, he was amazed at how much harder he could hit and how much faster his punches got.

Tim

[chillaplata]

Regarding the distances and times that people at various stages of training should aim for, there are useful training tools at the Runner's World website. These are obviously meant more for recreational and competitive runners, but they are helpful for anyone trying to improve their running times and distances.

I have to admit that for some reason -- inertia, laziness, I don't know -- I haven't taken Sifu Tim's excellent advice and begun interval training. When I was primarily doing distance running to stay in shape I would try to vary the distances and speeds of my runs: I'd do 5 miles at an 8-minute-mile pace, 3 miles at a 7:24 pace, or 1 mile at a 6:40 pace (and supplement the shorter runs with a half-hour or so on the elliptical trainer). Over the past six months I've really cut back on my running and I've deconditioned a lot (not that I had a great level of conditioning to spare in the first place). I did a fairly easy 3 miles at a 9-minute per mile pace yesterday, but if I try to do a mile in 6:40 now I gas out after a few minutes.

The reason I've basically stopped running is that it makes my lower legs and ankles feel really tight, to the point where after even a short run I have a hard time walking when I get up the next morning. I try to stretch out well after (and sometimes before) each run, but the problem hasn't gone away.

So now I rely primarily on the elliptical trainer to stay in shape. It's a good, low-impact workout, but it doesn't give me the cardio burn that running does. Maybe it would if I did an interval routine on the elliptical, but I haven't tried that yet.

[chillaplata]

Originally Posted by Mr. Miyagi

Frank Shamrock used to do 10 100 yard dashes, with a 100 yard walk in between. It would make his HR skyrocket, stabalize, skyrocket....so on. It's harder to do than it sounds.

My HR goes out of control when I swim, running is ok. I wish I could swim laps, I don't even bother trying anymore.

I don't mean to be a post-ho but this is an interesting topic. According to Coach Tom Coughlin's book on the New York Giants' 2008 Super Bowl win () pro football players do similar sprints ("gassers") in training camp. The players have to run from sideline to sideline and back (107 yards) ten times, with a thirty-second rest between each sprint and a three-minute rest between the first five and the last five. Linemen have to do each sprint in 20 seconds or less, backs and receivers in 16 seconds or less, and everyone else in 18 seconds or less.

Regarding swimming: Mr. Miyagi, are you sure your swimming form is correct? Swimming becomes exponentially harder if your technique is not right. Take the front crawl as an example: a lot of people try to breathe by lifting their heads straight up out of the water instead of using the correct rotary breathing technique. If you do that, you will have a hard time doing even a few laps as you will be burning large amounts of energy just trying to breathe.

[Garland]

Oddly enough, this was a topic that we went over this week in my physiology class... the whole Type IIx, Type IIa, and Type I (slow twitch) muscle fibers thing...
I remember the chart of percentages of muscle type looked something like- Lots of Type IIx for a spinal injury...Type IIa higher in world class sprinters, and Type I high in world class marathon runners...with Type I being almost 80% of "Extreme Endurance Athlete's" makeup. From what I could understand...the size of the muscles has something to do with how fast they can move...that is, those that are smaller in diameter can recieve Oxygen more easily through convection (Diffusion is too slow) to perform Aerobic respiration and hence produce more ATP to activate the walking proteins that cause the muscle to contract...and the whole other pathways to recieve energy/ATP through glycolysis fermentation...and the breakdown of Acetylcholine via aceytalcholinesterase into choline and asterase and pumping potassium out of the cell membrane...and my head is going to explode because I'm trying to do this from memory...in order to reset/ hyperpolarize the membrane so that another action potential can be fired through and release more schtuff into the neuromuscular junction.

So...fast twitch use up more ATP faster...and slow twitch use it slower and can rely on aerobic respiration. So basically, there is a trade-off.

The more sedendary a person is...the more fast twitch (Type IIx) stuff they have...and it becomes Type IIa as you use it more... and eventually Type I slow for endurance.
Hence why the old training doctrine of "taking it easy" a week or so before a race is absolutely correct...it'll make you that much faster. And carb loading = more glutamate for ADP and creatine energy storage.


I think...??? I'm probably way WAY off.

[Garland]

But still...we're talking about breathing and cardiovasular health, not muscular endurance...

So...what's the best way to improve your VO2 max, or increase lung capacity...or just generally to keep from coughing up a lung and collapsing after going up a flight of stairs...?

What are some good interval training drills? (besides windsprints?) Would an agility ladder be a good thing to pick up too???