Question...

[Saerko]

Does anyone know of any good Kenjutsu Dojos in Oregon? I can't find a single one...

[EJ]

What's kenjutsu???

[Ryu (non-working password]

Kenjutsu is swordsmanship.

Um...I'm not sure of any in the area, I'd look up what you can on the net and see what you can find out

Take care,
Ryu

[SweepEm]

What's the difference between Kendo and Kenjutsu?

[Mickey Finn]

Kenjustu is usually recognized as combative. It always begins with the sword already drawn with an agressive intent. The first recorded historical systematic teachings of the Japanese long sword began about 800 AD. Since that time, over 1200 differnt ryu (schools) have been documented.

Many exponents of kenjutsu began to question if a higher understanding could be achieved through practice and study with the sword. These kenshi (swordsmen) developed the art of the sword (kenjustsu) into a way of the sword (kendo). To signify their advances, they coined the name kendo. This divisive move began around the middle of the 14th century.

Kenjutsu is considered a classical bujutsu (art of war or martial art), having been well formulated prior to the Meiji reformation (the classical/modern dividing line). Classical kenjutsu ryu (schools) tend to be quite secretive of their techniques, being very closed to outsiders. Classical kenjutsu ryu are the closest to classical warrior training in the modern world. Examples are Yagyu Shinkage Ryu, and Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu.

Kenjutsu wear is traditional, consisting usually of hakama (split skirt trousers), keikogi (a heavy weight jacket worn tucked in) and obi (belt). As a rule, there are no belt colors in kenjutsu, but only titles; Deshi (student), Renshi (instructor), Kyoshi (teacher) and Hanshi (master).

Kata (prearranged forms or exercises) are the usual way of learning the intricate motions required. Initially one practices solo, but later pairs or multiple kenshi kata are performed. The standard practice tool is either a bokken (simulated wooden sword) or an actual live blade. Actual cutting, and thrusting of the blade against water soaked rolled mats and bamboo poles, called tameshigiri, give the more advanced exponent practice in actual impact of the live blade against a target.

[Mickey Finn]

Kendo is generally considered a classical budo (martial way), being formulated before the Meiji Restoration. In its most modern form it is practiced more as a sport and to improve the mind of the individual, rather than a form of combat.

In the beginning, kendo was a technique for training in kenjutsu without the bodily consequences of mistakes inherent in bokken or live katana or tachi practice (live blades). The standard weapon of kendo is a shinai, which is a split stave of bamboo with a leather tip cap and a leather handle. There is no curvature and the shinai is quite light in weight.

Traditional gi (clothes) are worn, but over this are budogu (fencing armor), similar to what western fencers wear. The men (a face mask with throat protector), the do (a breastplate), the kote (gloves and gauntlets), and a tare (heavy apron). Legal strikes are to the wrists, the sides of the do, and three cuts to the head (left right and center) and one thrust (the throat). An defined area (a square about 10 meters on a side) is the legal mat area, and two legal strikes as called by judges are required to win a match.

Advancement is done by way of kyu and dan, similar to colored belts in other martial ways. But the obi (if worn, sometimes deleted) always remains the same color. At the higher dan levels one is required to show some minimal competence with a live blade in ten kata, with both long (daito, katana or tachi) and short (shoto, wakizashi) swords. Classical ryu have all but disappeared within kendo, and so the emphasis is much more on the sport aspects.

[Mickey Finn]

Iai is considered a classical bujutsu or budo. It is more difficult to characterize iai, as the student progresses the -do aspects are left behind and the -jutsu aspects become more pronounced. Iai is believed to have its origins about 1200 AD, with about 800 ryu cataloged since then. It is possible that the present art of iai had its origins in an ancient reference to "tachi-gake" from about 1000 AD.

Iai is differentiated from the ken styles in that the sword is initailly at rest in the scabbard instead of already drawn for combat. Iai is composed of drawing the sword (nukitsuke), bringing it to combative use in minimum time, and returning the sword to the saya (scabbard). Starting positions for iai can be from combative postures or from everyday setting or standing positions.

Traditional gi are worn as in kenjutsu. Advancement can be either in the traditional method, without dan and kyu, or can include it similar to kendo. Iai within the Zen Nihon Kendo Renmei is ranked, and several instructor credentials are also available; called renshi, kyoshi and hanshi, which are also available in kendo.

The reason for the kendo federation having oversight of iaido is quite simple. Early this century, kendo practioners were aware that kendo was not properly teaching the sword. A shinai is not a Nihon-to (Japanese sword) and does not handle like a sword. Kendo did retain ten kata as a part of their promotion process, but they were felt to be insufficient to properly teach the "way of the sword."

In the late 1950s the Kendo Federeation invited classical iai expert swordsmen to form a commission to investigate courses of action. The result was a selection and adoption of seven iai kata. This list was later revised to ten kata by a later comission. These kata formed the basis of the Zen Nihon Kendo Renmei Seitei Gata.

These ten kata form the basis of kendo based iai. Further advancement is made within classical ryu. Examples are the Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu and the Muso Shinden Ryu. These two ryu are splits of the same branch and remain quite probably the most practiced ryu of iaido. These were the first to allow the public to join their ranks and participate as outsiders.

The Seitei Gata have three opening positions. Seiza is used for the first three and is considered a non-combative position. Tate-hiza is used for the fourth kata and is considered neutral, that is neither combative or non-combative. Finally, the last six kata are started from tachi-ai, and is also considered neutral. There is one other opening position which is considered combative but is not used in seitei, called iai-goshi.

The reason for non-combative or neutral starts is that these are the positions of everyday life. One could expect a surprise attack at anytime, and the ability to react from an everyday starting position was considered essential.

[Ronin]

Thanks Mickey!

I learned a little kendo in my karate days. I think it would be useful for self-defense if I had a walking-stick, or found a stick or broom or something lying around.

The concept of learning to defend oneself from a "natural" position, as in iai-do, could also be applied to unarmed defense. In reality you may not have time to adopt your "preferred" fighting stance.

[SweepEm]

Damn MF, (that stands for Micky Finn, not Mother..)
what a fast response and also long and good.

cool, very informative.

[Water Dragon]

When I was in college, an Iado master came to the school for a year. I couldn't take the class as the equipment is expensive. But a friend of mine did. Like me, he carries a handgun for protection and said that the drawing techniques work well with a pistol.

I just thought it was kinda cool.

[Mickey Finn]

Well guys, before you get too impressed with my knowledge, that was cut and paste from a site I have book marked. Over the years I have trained with a lot of people that were into the sword arts in varying degrees so I know some of the terminology and basic differences. My own personal experience with the sword arts mostly involves having an old Japanese man beat the crap out of me with a shinai while screaming things at me in broken English like, “BUTT IN!! (Whack) MORE HEEP!!!! (Whack) HEEL DOWN!!! (Whack) FASTER!!! (Whack) AGAIN!!! (Whack) RELAX SHOULDER!!! (The phucker is hitting me with a sword to make me relax??? Whack….) etc, etc, etc,. I remember after one class I was in back bummed out because he had followed me around beating on my ass for an hour and a half. One of his assistant instructors tells me, “he likes you, you have potential so your getting the special treatment.” LOL! Good thing he didn’t love me. I might not have survived.

[Bad Karma]

Funny stuff, Mickey. I'm more into traditional martial arts so I plan on bringing the normal weapons taught in JJJ into my training. The Bo, Jo, and Sword. I also plan on learning some 'roided up chopsticks on the side (escrima). I do know the Sword really gives your upper back and arms a good workout. I was told to do the 1st cut 50 times. I figured I'd be gun-ho and do 100. Never again! If he says 50, then I'm doing 50! LOL!

Peace