Do you think BJJ is gaining, or losing

[Thai-jitsu]

or staying the same in popularity? I haven't keep up with things in a while so I was curious. I know here in the Seattle area some have gone in the last few years. I think there are some new ones but its hard to figure out since they are not in the yellow pages. I don't know, what do you think?


Thai-jitsu
http://www.everythingoldschool.com

[HOWARD KIMONOS]

Like everything else, BJJ is going thru it's cycle. I think here in the USA, BJJ has hit a plateau and it's growth is slowing. It will settle and be like every other martial art...strong loyal base with single didget percentage growth.

Howard Liu

[Thai-jitsu]

It does seem to me that BJJ is reaching the mature phase here in the US. I read a post and I cannot remember who it was, but they said that there were not as many posts as in the past. That to me is an indication of a slowing down.

Of coure I'm just speculating, but the fact that the UFC is not on a major cable station I think hurts the popularity of BJJ.

Just my two cnets

[John Bennett]

I too think the growth in popularity is starting to level off.

7 years ago there was a large group of people to whom BJJ would appeal who had never heard of it. People like me.

I happened to accidentally see the first UFC live on PPV. My mouth fell open as I watched it. "I KNEW IT!!!" I said to myself.

The conventional martial arts wisdom at that time completely discounted groundfighting. 99% of the MA instructors in this country would have laughed in your face had you told them that a grappler could usually beat a striker. Seriously. The very idea was considered ridiculous.

I knew better because I'd been in a lot of fights. The things my MA techers were telling me just didn't sync-up with what I'd seen in real life.

My experience was: Guys in a fight will stand there and box until one of 'em gets popped good. Suddenly, one guy doesn't want to box and tackles the guy who popped him.

All that dancing around throwing jabs and roundhouse kicks goes right out the window the instant one guy decides he doesn't want to box anymore.

---

Almost all the guys who would want BJJ have heard about it. The only growth will come as qualified instructors seep out into the hinterlands and establish proper schools.

The same thing happened with "Korean Karate" back in the early '70's. Now we have at least one TKD school in every hick town in America. TKD has hit market saturation. The only grown of TKD now comes from actual population growth.

It will take another 10 years for BJJ to hit market saturation because promotions are much slower than TKD/Karate.

---

[Hawk]

I don't see it getting any more popular then it already has.
The reason is it ain't easy. The great thing about it IMO is rank is not given away. 99% of the GJJ/BJJ instructors have held that line and that's why, even if you just train for tournaments, it gives you an advantage over almost anyone you would run into for real. Very few people in this country want to put 6-10 years into something before they get a Black Belt. Let me give an example. Lets say you're at a party. Someone comes up to you and says,"I hear you're in the martial arts." "What belt are you?" You say 4 stripe Blue. They ask where that is in your ranking system?
You run the rank do to them. Unless they know anything about GJJ/BJJ they won't be that impressed. They go over to someone else and the same deal goes down. Turns out he's a 2nd Degree Black Belt in TKD. Now, to most that's more impressive. From what I've seen now days, many times the 4 Stripe Blue has more time in and IMO 95 times out of 100, a 4 Stripe Blue that has trained only in GJJ/BJJ will defeat
a 2nd Degree Black Belt that has trained only in TKD. I'm not trying to dog on TKD because you can substitute most Kung-Fu or Karate styles in this scenario for TKD. Most do not want to put the time in because quite frankly its just too hard.
Hawk

[Slider]

I dont think its slowing down at all. In fact i dont even think BJJ has even started to peak yet in the US . For instance go ask 10 people if they know what BJJ is then ask the same 10 people if they know about TKD or Kung Fu or Karate and you can bet they will all know about these other martial arts because they have already had their time in the spotlight here in the US. BJJ hasnt had its time in the spotlight yet. I know lots of people that took dif MA when they were young and when they got older got in fights and have seen that they dont work in real life. And if you try to talk to them about BJJ they have the same attitude saying that it doesnt work in real life its for the movies because they have no clue what it is. Then you have the other people who have never been in a fight that get turned on by the stuff they see in the movies. I dont think that UFC was the big break for BJJ . Sure it brought around all the serrious martial artist and competion nhb fighters to reality but it didnt do much for the general public. I mean the normal soccer mom isnt gona want her kid to take BJJ after watching UFC lol. I think it is a set up for BJJ tho. Now something else can come up "like maybe a action movie star that uses BJJ instead of the high flying kicking stuff" and BJJ has UFC proof to back it up and say hey look this stuff is real even if it is in a movie. Thats why i think that when it gets goin here in the US it will be huge!!! After all thats how most other Martial Arts got their big break here in the US by the movies... And if done properly it could be some amazing looking stuff on film with lots of bone breaking going on. Movies make people set there and say i wana be able to do that stuff or at least say that i can. Just look at Steven Segal , if someone can make Aikido look so great on film think what BJJ would look like.

[Tony10]

John: right on, your whole take on what's really going to happen. I say that all the time: they punch until somebody starts getting the worse of it, then it's clinch time. I see this almost every time.

Hawk: exactly. One thing I'd add to that--the irony of your point that BJJ doesn't give away the cache of having a black belt: hell, in the place I go, even the white belts rock! I'd give them the advantage over most karate (or whatever) higher ranks. One thing that is truly special about BJJ is that you are sparring all-out at every class; I don't think any other martial art gets to be applied full-strength like that, for various reasons.

Look on the bright side guys, it probably has peaked and since ebbed. Now it's going back to "our little secret"! LOL.

However, I haven't talked to one person who studies any martial art lately that doesn't take groundfighting as part of the course, so maybe it hasn't declined, maybe the study of just pure BJJ has.

Plus, if I'm not mistaken it's part of Army basic training now, correct?

[Edited by Tony10 on 10-16-2000 at 02:49 PM]

[Hawk]

Tony 10,
Good Post!!! I don't think all the Army basic training includes GJJ/BJJ, but I may be wrong. I know that the Airborne Rangers are using it.
Hawk

[Jaguar Wong]

I think it's still just as popular. It's just that the couch potato martial artists that thought a little bjj would go a long way have since left when they found out how hard the work is. They didn't realize the reason bjj guys are better equipped for a fight than the average weekend warrior is because of their training intensity, and mat time. Not because there was some magic formula that they could rely on.

I gotta say that I'm very new to it all, but I've really grown to love the techniques in bjj, and it has since gone from "just learn enough to prevent submissions and get back on my feet to enhance my style (N. Shaolin)" to "bring the other guy out of their game. and Take the choke if I see the opening." I don't know if that made any sense you you guys.

The intensity is also something that I've been slowly bringing back into my training, but the intensity on the mat just seems to benefit me more than that type of intensity while stand up sparring only. Adding the element of takedowns and submissions really adds a lot to the "play-time".

[Hookah Smokin Caterpillar]

I think the reason BJJ isn't exploading in the market is because no one believes that a groundfighter can beat a guy who can do three spinning kicks in a row. Trust me, my friends wouldn't believe me about BJJ until I showed them Pride and beat their asses quite easily everytime. Now they wanna join the club

[John Bennett]

HA! That is ironic Tony...

Practitioners of art that destroyed the credibility of the Black Belt benefit from Black Belt Mystique the most.

Practitionsers of the art that is putting the Badass back in black belt will probably never get one!

It's a crazy world we live in.

[fascistfury]

if people ask me what belt i am, i just tell them i don't do belts(since i will obviously be a white belt for prob another 3-4yrs). but i offer them chnce to test my skills out in the yard. unfortunately, no one has taken me up on my offer yet, so everyone just takes my skills in faith. i think hat's kinda funny, since most people do the same thing for TKD people. oooh, he's a blackbelt...i've never seen him fight, but he's a badass. hehe! some people are ridiculous!

[Ground Effect]

Thai-jitsu,
A lot on the old students from those schools (Joe Moreira's-Seattle, Seattle BJJ-Machado, NW Fight Club..etc)
still train together at Ground Effect BJJ in Burien.
The URL is http://www.groundeffectbjj.cjb.net

Originally posted by Thai-jitsu
or staying the same in popularity? I haven't keep up with things in a while so I was curious. I know here in the Seattle area some have gone in the last few years. I think there are some new ones but its hard to figure out since they are not in the yellow pages. I don't know, what do you think?


Thai-jitsu
http://www.everythingoldschool.com

[macdawg]

BJJ still hasn't marketed itself properly in the USA except for in California where you can watch an event, and or find out about a black belt in your area. I think as BJJ picks up around the country we will see more quality instructors, available in more parts of the country, and they will market themselves to get students, people will start they just need to know where. I was a wrestler who had seen Royce Gracie once and heard of a local BJJ guy and went in to test his skills. I was impressed and stayed.

The Number 1 reason BJJ is no longer rapidly gaining in popularity:

Kazushi Sakuraba.

The Gracie Mystique has been shattered. If you market yourself as invincible, don't be surprised when people feel let down after you get your butt kicked.