2 Marines Kicked Out of Graduation for Wearing Uniforms

[Kim Smith]

Originally posted by Maxximus
Kim Smith,

What the hell do you mean by "respect the need for rules"? That's such a cop out.

No, breaking the rules just because YOU don't agree with them is a COP OUT. There are plenty of rules/laws that I can think of that don't make one iota of sense in specific cases, this is NOT the point. If you disagree with a rule then challenge it using the appropriate channels. My guess is these kids don't yet have the maturity to understand the importance of following rules, a trait you seem to share. I know people that always find a reason why they should be excused from following ANY rule/regulation, you seem to be one of these. Of course these sorts of people are all for conformity when it suits them.

I don't know what the heck my web page has to do with these marines, obviously you are a frustrated little jerk clutching at straws.

[sccr06]

Kim,
These Marines didn't intend to break the rules. They were following the spirit of the rule. In the military, personnel are taught to look for INTENT when direct guidance is not available. These Marines were doing just that.
Apparantly, the school officials who would not allow them to graduate were more interested in enforcing their own authority than the spirit of the rule which is to prevent vulgar or inappropriate attire at a solemn ceremony. There is no attire more appropriate or solemn than a military dress uniform.

I think what these school officials did was unneccessary and stupid. Use your brain people. Don't just follow a rule because it is there; think about the purpose behind it. Too bad those officials didn't.

[Scott Harper]

scor06,

You said, "to look for INTENT when direct guidance is not available". Direct guidence was available in the paper that they signed saying what they should wear to graduation.
The principal had to put down some rules to be followed by everybody. If they could wear their uniform, with no tie, then why not some other person that goes to that school that has to wear a uniform to work?

The consequences for not following the rules in the military can be bad also. Those two kids should accept their fate for not following the rules. The purpose behind the school rule was uniformity. I think they will have a hard time in the military. They have no sympathy from me.

[aseepish]

Side note/rant:
Here's another point to consider about these KIDS. The United States government has been so far unwilling to support any United Nations resolution condemning the use of child soldiers (a huge problem in intra-state conflicts everywhere). This is due to the fact that the armed forces get a large portion of their recruits from those under the age of 18. While this is not necessarily a bad thing in and of itself, considering that there is not much difference between a 17-and-a-half year old and an 18 year old, but it undermines international support to ban the arming and deployment of soldiers who are sometimes under the age of 10.

T.

[Marcus]

It was stupid for the school to not allow them to walk, but the kids brought it on themselves. They assumed. If they assume in the military, they're gonna have a pretty damn hard time. If they would have taken the 5 minutes to stop by the principal's office and ask if it was O.K., then there wouldn't be a problem.

[Masala]

You fools!

"the military uniform is respectable attire"

Thats a matter of opinion, isn't it? To some people, ripped jeans and a t-shirt is respectable attire. Thus the reason for stating EXACTLY what people had to wear to graduation and even having them SIGN a peice of paper acknowledging it. That way there is no confusion, correct?
Should John Bennet be able to wear his Burger King uniform because he is really proud that he finally made cashier?

[bobby_steeles]

i think the only way you can argue that these kids were right is if you let your patriotism take the place of common sense. marcus is right, why didn't they just ask somebody beforehand? they were either arrogant or absent-minded.
plus they signed the damn paper.

[YeLLa-TiGeR]

Maxximus is anything BUT a "frustrated little jerk."

He is one BAAAAD mofo!
haha Seriously Maxximus is a cool guy.


I agree with Sccro6, I dont know but the disagreements that some instituations have with each other are damn silly. The young men obviously did not mean to cause trouble and this situation is just an example of how two social instituations have conflicting interests. The two marines are just caught in the middle.

Personally what the big deal is for the school to allow the young men to wear their uniform to the graduation. The uniform itself is a symbol of national pride. If I was a part of the school administation, I would be damn proud of having such people in the graduation ceromony.

[sccr06]

"The agreement states that males must wear socks, a shirt with collar, tie and slacks, said school Superintendent Fred Bechtold"

Like I said before, the INTENT was to prevent inappropriate attire not uniformity. You can't compare a t-shirt and jeans or some other private company uniform to a military service dress uniform.

These guys were not ASSUMING, they were looking to follow what they understood to be the intent of the rule. No matter what some of you may believe, the US Army is not about blind obedience. We try to create thinking soldiers not robots.

Robots is what our school officials acted like. This is just like a zero tolerance policy. There are exceptions to the rule and incidents must be judged on case by case basis.

Ask yourself, was it really so important to blindly follow the letter of a rule that CLEARLY was not meant to exclude a dress uniform, and deprive to Marines of a High School Diploma? What has that school achieved from that decision? Not a damn thing.

[Scott Harper]

The way to prevent inappropriate attire is by having everybody look the same, thus they have a dress code for graduation.

The principal's intent was to have everybody wear "socks, a shirt with collar, tie and slacks." The Marines should have found a way to follow the principal's intent while at the same time wearing their uniform. Like I have said before, the Marines should have worn their class "A" uniform which includes all of the above items. Somehow they thought they could be special a wear their dress blues (which again I'm assuming is what they did). The Marines had an alternative which would have let them be within the principal's intent and while at the same time wearing their uniform - they chose not to do that though.

The ,uniform of the day (so to speak), was clearly set out in the papers in which they signed. The Army doesn't want blind obedience, but they do expect you to follow your word from a contract in which you sign.

A service person's uniform and a serviceperson's uniform serve the same basic function - they both serve people. A McDonald's cashier wouldn't get as much repect though.

You can still get a diploma without going to the graduation ceremony.

[sccr06]

Scott,
You make a good point about the Class A's. That would have been a perfect solution. It's unfortunate that they didn't think of it. I doubt they purposely went with Blues to circumvent the rule. They likely thought it just looked better.

At the same time, you have to admit that the actions of the school officials was shortsighted and, in general, silly. Don't you think there could have been a little give and take here? After all, this isn't rocket science for Christ's sake. I think they could've afforded to misplace a decimal.

[JaredExtreme]

This topic is retarded. It has NOTHING to do with martial arts, and secondly it is rather simple. The students chose to break the rules they agreed to, heck, they were even given a second chance to change their attire. Hopefully they learnt their lesson.

[Scott Harper]

They probably did think the dress blues looked better, but they made a wrong choice. They should have gone for the other hanger. It's not like they were at a duty station already. They just got out of boot camp, so they had all of their military gear and clothing with them, getting ready to go to their military school. Their class "A" uniform should have been beside their dress blues in the garment bag. They had both articles of clothing there, and made the wrong choice, though they should have known better. Yea, they were probably proud and weren't thinking straight, and just went with the prettier uniform.

It strange that they mention you can't add to or take away from a uniform. Putting a gown over the uniform would be a gray matter on that subject, in my opinion, if they wanted to follow the rules and regulations closely enough.

I think that the school officals were right in saying that the Marines had a uniform, but also that the school has a uniform code, just for about 1 1/2 hours he said. Since the Marines were participating in a school function and not a military function, then the school function would have overridden any disagreement. Once the officials noticed that they didn't have on the proper attire, then they were given a choice, to put a tie on or take the coat off. If they were graduating from a military academy, then the dress blues would ahve been appropriate.

Now if you give special treatment to one person, then other people would want special treatment also. It has to end somewhere. People these days push the limits as to what is acceptable sometimes and they ruin it for everybody else. The school probably had to put in a dress code for everybody to follow because of some past even, who know what it was.

Like they told me sometimes, "good inititive, but bad judgement" - I think that fits here.

I'm not into uniforms though. I think they are uncomfortable, even if they do look good. I got married on base and didn't wear a uniform. During our school after boot camp we had to wear our uniform if we were to go out into town on liberty. You would wear the uniform out into town, class "B" uniform, then change at the bus station. I didn't care for wearing the uniform into town either, but once you're out of boot camp you're proud of what you got through. It's kind of like I don't wear my gi into stores, though the pants would be comfortable to sleep in

I just think the Marines involved made the wrong decision, and they should live with the consequences and learn from them. Also, they should read what they sign carefully - one only cost them 1 1/2 hours of misery, the other is 4 years.

[Scott Harper]

interesting point Jared, then again there are many topics lately that are retarted and have nothing to do with the martial arts.

[sccr06]

Scott,
You made some good points. I still feel it was petty for them not to bend the rule in this case but I gotta admit the Marines were wrong in this case...oh yeah, and me too