Brazilian Ju-Jitsu

[TTEscrima]

I cannot believe my eyes!! Everything I've ever said about GJJ being useless in the street is in the fine print of their handbook!!!!!

Well, so much for every argument the nutthuggers ever made here.

Here it is folks, directly from the handbook that comes with the Gracie Combatives system.

The disclaimer states WORD FOR WORD:

FINAL WARNING

Practicing tournament or sport techniques is risky, even if you understand they will not work in a real fight. In a real fight you must rely on trained instincts. If you dilute your training with impure, unrealistic sport applications of Gracie Jiu-jitsu you will hinder your ability to respond quickly and effectively with the right technique. Worse you may reflexively execute a sports technique with potentially disastrous consequences. While there is little harm in sampling the techniques of Gracie Jui-jitsu, you risk developing bad habits if you practice these techniques to the point of developing reflexes.

I do believe that's everything Boar, Uke and I have saying for years and you've all denied it and freaked out calling us every name in the book.

Game, set, match, folks.

Apparently the lawyers made them put the disclaimer in, there it is folks form the Gracies themselves...learning GJJ will teach you bad habits that directly interfere with your ability to survive a real fight.

[Tant01]

Originally Posted by TTEscrima

I cannot believe my eyes!! Everything I've ever said about GJJ being useless in the street is in the fine print of their handbook!!!!!:

Well, so much for every argument the nutthuggers ever made here.

Here it is folks, directly from the handbook that comes with the Gracie Combatives system.

The disclaimer states WORD FOR WORD:

FINAL WARNING

Practicing tournament or sport techniques is risky, even if you understand they will not work in a real fight. In a real fight you must rely on trained instincts. If you dilute your training with impure, unrealistic sport applications of Gracie Jiu-jitsu you will hinder your ability to respond quickly and effectively with the right technique. Worse you may reflexively execute a sports technique with potentially disastrous consequences. While there is little harm in sampling the techniques of Gracie Jui-jitsu, you risk developing bad habits if you practice these techniques to the point of developing reflexes.

I do believe that's everything Boar, Uke and I have saying for years and you've all denied it and freaked out calling us every name in the book.

Game, set, match, folks.

Apparently the lawyers made them put the disclaimer in, there it is folks form the Gracies themselves...learning GJJ will teach you bad habits that directly interfere with your ability to survive a real fight.

You may have found my new sig line... LMAO

[WildWest.]

Originally Posted by TTEscrima

Tell that to the Gracie family.

https://www.graciecombat.com/flare/next

I like BJJ, it's training and what it aims to achieve. I work as front line police officer so I've been in a few scraps and situations as part of the job....after watching the video promo for Gracie Combatives, I can't say I'm particularly impressed by what they are selling. And that's by no means disrespect because I admire what they have achieved, but I wonder if they have really done their research into real world violence.

For example, where's the de-escalation?? Looking at the video, we have a guy yelling and screaming at another guy in a car with the question "what would you do?". Drive away for one thing. Once you step outside to face this guy you are accepting a fight therefore, at least in my country, you become guilty of fighting in a public place. Depending on the outcome of the fight, you may become liable for a serious assault charge. By getting out of the car, you aren't defending yourself anymore, you are accepting the challenge. What happens if your double leg takedown (as used in the video) means the guy smacks his head on the concrete causing serious injury or killing him? Whose at fault? You are.

With regards to the scraps that I've been involved in.....it's not often that it's one on one so committing to a takedown may mean I get blindsided by someone else....it may not too, but I don't want or desire to be wrestling on the ground with some guy who could grab my OC spray, ASP baton, sidehandle baton, taser, or Glock. I have to keep these things!

I love wrestling and rolling and doing all that type of training. It's great fun, awesome fitness and allows you to develop a "hardness" that other arts just don't teach. Regular training means you do become proficient in it, but it has limitations but unfortunately I don't see the Gracies recognising that.

I've noticed it's not mentioned much here, but what I've found to work really well in reality is the material taught by Richard Dimitri's Senshido organisation. Simple, effective, fast and potentially devastating but can be used with a good deal of control depending on the situation. I still train MA's, and always will, but there's nothing like a bit of reality to see what parts of training have worked and what hasn't.

Just my point of view....which doesn't mean much in the greater scheme of things!!

[kingoftheforest]

Originally Posted by Mr. Arieson

And practicing Choreography? With all due respect, WTF does that prepare you for?

Dancing will get you ass kicked too.

Is there someone on this forum who has suggested it as a viable Martial Art?

[kingoftheforest]

Originally Posted by WildWest.

I like BJJ, it's training and what it aims to achieve. I work as front line police officer so I've been in a few scraps and situations as part of the job....after watching the video promo for Gracie Combatives, I can't say I'm particularly impressed by what they are selling. And that's by no means disrespect because I admire what they have achieved, but I wonder if they have really done their research into real world violence.

For example, where's the de-escalation?? Looking at the video, we have a guy yelling and screaming at another guy in a car with the question "what would you do?". Drive away for one thing. Once you step outside to face this guy you are accepting a fight therefore, at least in my country, you become guilty of fighting in a public place. Depending on the outcome of the fight, you may become liable for a serious assault charge. By getting out of the car, you aren't defending yourself anymore, you are accepting the challenge. What happens if your double leg takedown (as used in the video) means the guy smacks his head on the concrete causing serious injury or killing him? Whose at fault? You are.

With regards to the scraps that I've been involved in.....it's not often that it's one on one so committing to a takedown may mean I get blindsided by someone else....it may not too, but I don't want or desire to be wrestling on the ground with some guy who could grab my OC spray, ASP baton, sidehandle baton, taser, or Glock. I have to keep these things!

I love wrestling and rolling and doing all that type of training. It's great fun, awesome fitness and allows you to develop a "hardness" that other arts just don't teach. Regular training means you do become proficient in it, but it has limitations but unfortunately I don't see the Gracies recognising that.

I've noticed it's not mentioned much here, but what I've found to work really well in reality is the material taught by Richard Dimitri's Senshido organisation. Simple, effective, fast and potentially devastating but can be used with a good deal of control depending on the situation. I still train MA's, and always will, but there's nothing like a bit of reality to see what parts of training have worked and what hasn't.

Just my point of view....which doesn't mean much in the greater scheme of things!!

Golden bro'.

Unfortunately it seems that even though you have real world experience and have cited it only 2 things will happen on this forum.

1. Your advice and experience will be completely ignored or....

2. You will be asked to come up with video proof of your experience.


Mind you on part 2 the people asking will most likley have neither pic or video of themselves anywhere doing ANYTHING related to martial arts.

[WildWest.]

Thanks KOTF,

I'm not trying to convert anyone so don't expect anyone to believe me and I expect to be challenged and ridiculed. It's a public interent forum so shit happens.

What I've noticed is that not many people actually listen to those with the experience.....Sometimes I listened over the years....Sometimes I didn't and soon learnt why I should have taken the good advice! Again shit happens!

I don't know if I have good advice but merely observations gained from personal experiences.

[kingoftheforest]

Originally Posted by TTEscrima

I cannot believe my eyes!! Everything I've ever said about GJJ being useless in the street is in the fine print of their handbook!!!!!

Well, so much for every argument the nutthuggers ever made here.

Here it is folks, directly from the handbook that comes with the Gracie Combatives system.

The disclaimer states WORD FOR WORD:

FINAL WARNING

Practicing tournament or sport techniques is risky, even if you understand they will not work in a real fight. In a real fight you must rely on trained instincts. If you dilute your training with impure, unrealistic sport applications of Gracie Jiu-jitsu you will hinder your ability to respond quickly and effectively with the right technique. Worse you may reflexively execute a sports technique with potentially disastrous consequences. While there is little harm in sampling the techniques of Gracie Jui-jitsu, you risk developing bad habits if you practice these techniques to the point of developing reflexes.

I do believe that's everything Boar, Uke and I have saying for years and you've all denied it and freaked out calling us every name in the book.

Game, set, match, folks.

Apparently the lawyers made them put the disclaimer in, there it is folks form the Gracies themselves...learning GJJ will teach you bad habits that directly interfere with your ability to survive a real fight.

Now we'll start seeing fanaticism. When your own god of MA's and his pantheon tell you flat out that what they teach is not good for SD but sports, and you still refuse to believe then you rate right up there with L. Ron Hubbard and his Scientologists.


To believe that knowing when, where, who, and how about a fight is a world apart from having no idea that TSHTF.

The difference is as big as the gap between rubber knives and real ones.


The psychological difference is even bigger.

No one is jumping out of the stands and into the ring on fight night while some guy waits in the ring to see who will.

In an SD situation the only thing you have is the 7 P's

Prior
Proper
Planning
Prevents
Piss
Poor
Performance

You never know where who or what is going to happen. There are a myriad of multiple unknowns.

There are no rules no lack of weapons no bell and very little if any warnings.

It's just like school, you study hard, take all the right classes, and expect to know when you get out.

Then holy shit you realize your missing the one thing that comes only with time, experience.

You can prepare for a lot of things but actually doing is the only "real" way to learn.

But I'd be especially leary of learning from someone who flat out said "This shit isn't going to work like you think it is, and could make things worse"

[TTEscrima]

Originally Posted by Tant01

You may have found my new sig line... LMAO

It's too big I already tried.

[kingoftheforest]

Originally Posted by WildWest.

I don't know if I have good advice but merely observations gained from personal experiences.

that's the best kind my friend.

[Tom Yum]

Originally Posted by kingoftheforest

Prior
Proper
Planning
Prevents
Piss
Poor
Performance

Good lord! I've heard that one alot lol

[kingoftheforest]

Originally Posted by Tom Yum

Good lord! I've heard that one alot lol

Learn it, know it, own it. Make it yours son.

[Tom Yum]

Originally Posted by kingoftheforest

Learn it, know it, own it. Make it yours son.

You're making me miss a very influential CPO from yesteryear. A very solid person and one helluva instructor.

Gotta run.

[aseepish]

Originally Posted by kingoftheforest

Dancing will get you ass kicked too.

Is there someone on this forum who has suggested it as a viable Martial Art?

Funk Dancing for Self-Defence at 0:28 of this video

[kingoftheforest]

Originally Posted by Mr. Arieson

Core art would be a sports art, with HEAVY combatives training AFTER learning to roll, get hit, hit doing sports martial arts.

I think where our opinion differs may be from a fact of childhood.

I know TTE and Boar as well as many other from our group, grew up doing these things.

We wrestled, boxed and sparred. We got slammed, and hit, and kicked. We learned to do these things when we were younger. I guess to us this is normal. Kids do this growing up. You get to learn as you go so you don't have to cram it all in through a few years of training and destroy your body.

When you are young you have time to learn these things theoretically. If you wait till you get older well honestly, tough shit.

Somebody screwed you into thinking life is all "Leave it to Beaver" and you don't have to worry.

While it's not Apocalypse Now or Escape from L.A.. Violence is a reality of life some people just choose to believe they are above it.

Your choice, but don't try to drag everyone down by passing off dross for no more than what it is.

A marketing ploy. A lot of people on this forum have been accused of doing so, but nothing has been more blatant of a sell out than this "Combatives" program.

It's a ring sport plain and simple. Nothing wrong with that but there is a time and place for everything.

Originally Posted by Mr. Arieson

If what KOTF does is any indication of the teachings of TTescrima, then my hat's off. He moves like a panther and looks to be very efficient. Good job.

Thanks. I still think I could smooth out a lot more and gain some speed.

[kingoftheforest]

Originally Posted by aseepish

Funk Dancing for Self-Defence at 0:28 of this video

OMG I almost wet myself laughing.